600lbs of fruit out of our patches. 26 plants total, 24 beefsteak and 2 sweet
100s.
we are at 103 qts of canned tomatoes or canned tomato juice so far.
at 7qts per bucket and each bucket coming in around 22lbs of fruit that total is about 15 buckets or 330lbs of fruit.
this does not count what we have eaten or given away. add about another
100-150lbs for those.
and we are still seeing plenty of fruit on the vines and the weather looks to be cooperating. another four to five days and we'll have about 4 more buckets. after that it will be hit or miss as the weather cools and sun fades even more. i'm probably not even going to bother with the green ones that will be left. they make good worm food for the next year and whatever we'll put in those patches.
Mine are not coming in as fast as the weather was very cool and wet this year, still have some flowers on the Stripies and purples. Day & night weather tomato good for the next 10 days though. Should be for the next 30 as well. Cherries have been going like gang busters esp the Orange. Made a great little roasted vine cluster Caprisan salad with the Red Cherries and my globe Basil on a toasted Tuscan bread a bit of garlic and EVOO. Almost orgasmic! In retrospect should have stayed with day long lighting though. Too cool to school I guess. I was hoping you organo farmers actually had an edge but no such luck in the PNW. Light and temps are still the key up here.
Bit unusual to have pulled in 10 # per #5 pro container of Anchos though in such a short season up here. Ancho/Pasilla is my fav. We will see what my winter crop of fresh tomatoes is, along with the fresh mesclun, Rains move back in around duck season. Should harvest the salad stuff every 30-35 days . not much light need there. You really should consider extending your season on some of your crops. Granted canned is good for sauces but fresh is oh so good. But hey if your on the homestead cycle good for you. Hopefully your next years crop is as good!
Oh yea, a little addendum just for giggles and grins:
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yields: 15 to 45 pounds per 10-foot row.
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Yield The average tomato plant produces just five pounds of tomatoes, according to the University of Missouri Extension. However, you may attain yields as high as 20 pounds per plant if you provide proper care for your plants. so:
low end : 5 x 26 =3D 130 high end: 20 x 26 =3D520
You are saying you got 500+ #s, from 26 plants w/ more to come and no waste! Wow! But still Bird , the Missouri thing comes out and ya cannot show me that your not being a bit too enthusiastic with your numbers. It is human nature after all especially when called out on a public forum. So don't take it too personal, but seriously folks tend to inflate for ego.... just look at billy.... so a grain of salt and such.
Still good on ya. Lets see what the next few months bring ya. I'll still be growing.
Canned toms are a buck ten for a 28 oz these days up here. Hot house vines are 2.29-2.99 a # and they are from the PNW, not CA., Fla. AZ, nor Mexico.
BTW do you ever read market reports? may not mean anything to you but it is a good gauge for your efforts:
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represent open (spot) market sales by first handlers on product of generally good quality and condition unless otherwise stated and may include promotional allowances or other incentives. No consideration is given to after-sale adjustments unless otherwise stated. Brokerage fees paid by the shipper are included in the price reported.
CENTRAL DISTRICT CALIFORNIA : TOMATOES Demand: GOOD. Market: STEADY. Basis of Sale: Sales F.O.B. Shipping Point and/or Delivered Sales, Shipping Point Basis Comment: Extra services included. CENTRAL DISTRICT CALIFORNIA : TOMATOES Package: 25 lb cartons loose Variety: MATURE GREENS Reporting City: PHOENIX, AZ Date Low-High Price Mostly Low-High Price Season Item Size Environment Color Unit of Sale Quality Condition Storage Appearance Import/Export Comment
09/02/2011 9.95 - 9.95 - 2011 xlge few
11.95
09/02/2011 9.95 - 9.95 - 2011 lge few
11.95
09/02/2011 8.95 - 9.95 - 2011 med few
10.95
EASTERN SHORE VIRGINIA : TOMATOES Basis of Sale: Sales F.O.B. Shipping Point and Delivered Sales Shipping Point BasisComments: SUPPLIES INSUFFICIENT TO ESTABLISH MARKET.
MICHIGAN : TOMATOES Demand: GOOD. Market: STEADY. Basis of Sale: Sales F.O.B. Shipping Point and/or Delivered Sales, Shipping Point Basis MICHIGAN : TOMATOES Package: 25 lb cartons loose Variety: VINE RIPES Reporting City: BENTON HARBOR, MI Date Low-High Price Mostly Low-High Price Season Item Size Environment Color Unit of Sale Quality Condition Storage Appearance Import/Export Comment
MICHIGAN : TOMATOES Package: cartons 2 layer Variety: VINE RIPES Reporting City: BENTON HARBOR, MI Date Low-High Price Mostly Low-High Price Season Item Size Environment Color Unit of Sale Quality Condition Storage Appearance Import/Export Comment
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COAST AND MEXICO CROSSINGS THROUGH OTAY MESA : TOMATOES Demand: GOOD. Market: 4X4-4X5S HIGHER, OTHERS ABOUT STEADY. Basis of Sale: Sales F.O.B. Shipping Point and/or Delivered Sales, Shipping Point Basis Supply: VERY LIGHT. Comment: Extra services included. SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COAST AND MEXICO CROSSINGS THROUGH OTAY MESA : TOMATOES Package: cartons/flats 2 layer Variety: VINE RIPES Reporting City: PHOENIX, AZ Date Low-High Price Mostly Low-High Price Season Item Size Environment Color Unit of Sale Quality Condition Storage Appearance Import/Export Comment
WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA : TOMATOES Demand: FAIRLY GOOD. Market: ABOUT STEADY. Basis of Sale: Sales F.O.B. Shipping Point and/or Delivered Sales, Shipping Point Basis WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA : TOMATOES Package: 25 lb cartons loose Variety: VINE RIPES Grade: U.S. Comb or Better Reporting City: ASHEVILLE, NC Date Low-High Price Mostly Low-High Price Season Item Size Environment Color Unit of Sale Quality Condition Storage Appearance Import/Export Comment
so ~180- 200$ to 300$ wholesale for your efforts is a more realistic figure. Nice little backyard project.
Do check these out, bit old but they are a pretty good standard that can be verified, not that I do not trust your figures but i do not think you truly understand the macro view in your zeal to have folks buy into the organo billy world. Know there are pros and cons to all, just don't try to tell me you have a one size fits all like billy pretends. OK? That is really stupid thinking.
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Its still Gunner unless you want me to keep flipping you guys the bird? Your call.
no, there has been some loss here or there. not too much yet. if a tomato has a bit of rot on it or the end was too ripe then we'd cut that off and use the rest. i think we've thrown about ten tomatoes away right from the vine (complete loss of that fruit).
for the four buckets we did yesterday there was of course all the air spaces in between the tomatoes, but in the end we had one full bucket of cores and peels/seeds/ends/bits after processing.
a bucket weighs around 22-24lbs depending upon the size and how high we stack them.
roughly 60lbs went in the 28qts and 28lbs will go back to the ground.
the math i presented in my original post was working backwards from 103qts total so far produced. we've been getting about 7qts per bucket so doing the math of 22lbs/bucket and ending up with about 15 buckets of fruit so far (i.e. 330lbs) just to put up the 103qts.
that does not include what we have eaten or given away. i know we've given away over 80lbs as i've carried much of it. as for eating, we've eaten one to two tomatoes a day since they've come in and handfuls of cherry tomatoes. for two people that's about another 80lbs.
330+160=490lbs with more to come.
you may take it however you'd like. i know i'm not inflating numbers because i'm using the low end to begin with (instead of 24+lbs per bucket i'm using 22lbs) and i'm weighing the buckets before processing and we are writing down the number of quarts produced. there is no enthusiasm in the number of quarts as that is solid fact. you're welcome to visit and count the jars. inspect the number of plants. talk to people we've given fruit to. etc.
the final tally will be in a bit yet, and that will depend upon if i feel ambitious enough to harvest the greens and put any of those up or to let the worms have them. one last celebratory fried green tomato usually marks the end of the season.
i can't stand the taste of canned tomatoes or juice (watered down, metallic and salty).
get the price of organic, glass jar, 100% tomato juice or chunks, no water, sugar or salt added and then you'd be comparable. though certainly i could not compete with the purchasing power of a major producer for the price of jars or lids, but my overhead is peanuts compared to them too. and i have no distribution or advertising costs.
next time we visit the farm stand down the road that sells canning tomatoes i'll check his prices (i think they were about $10/half bushel, but i will check). we buy the sweet corn and melons from him. i think he grows organic.
the quarts that have been put up. organic prices would be more comparable.
...
...
trimmed down to these local prices (as i'm in MI).
organic?
the ultimate judge will be the quality of the land/air/water in a hundred years. will our children be able to have children and will they be able to live healthy lives?
i'm hoping to keep these few acres going for as long as i can. i'm not sure what the future holds, but i do know i'm liking the results so far from my shift away from using various sprays and encouraging helpful critters.
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> BTW Its still Gunner unless you want me to keep flipping you guys the
ok, Gunner. [whatever you do with your fingers is your business :) ]
now i gotta get a move on and get some peaches picked and start putting them up.
Bird, You guys should be darn proud, 20 #s a plant is exceptional in any climate. Just know that would not happen here without some help. Hell, a lot of help, hence the BS hothouse vines sure taste better than the Fl field pinks shipped up here. So I tweak under lights.
I also agree w/ ya, you can't place a price on a quality product. So I don't understand "whats the price" thing was? You would not be pulling 20 # here and you admit you can't compete with the commercial growers on price point. Kinda sounded like you were tag teaming with billy, one of those organo vs. the world folks when we started this little posturing game.
My garden is a cook's garden. I do really good with it because of a lot of good teachers around the world. My rosemarys are not the Mediterranean quality I have known but I can tweak em in a green house better to taste than I can in the cool wet short growing season we have here. That is priceless to have that. Sure nice in the winter to have some rosemary garlic trashcan potatoes from your own garden. Same for the many varieties of peppers, epozote, basils, marjoram/ oregano,Bay Laurel .... you get the picture I'm sure. So growing my own is much better than not. The 20-30 bucks a month is acceptable to me , again especially in the winter when I'm in my greenhouse. I still have time to review the seed catalogs in front of the winter fire with the dog at my feet as you do
As for your sermon of "go forth and cause no harm". Your preaching to the choir, maybe not yours perhaps and certainly not the billy bad goat Doom and Gloom Fringe Band. I do not see it as an "either/ or". You've even stated you use billy's evil OP. But billy has never been anywhere nor seen anything except what he reads on the Internet to really compare. I have been around the world a time or two to appreciate the little things that American billys seems to think is exclusive to the Organos. He has no bona fides except from his Amazon Organo book of the month club . Your 20# @ give you some. My Inlaws in Detroit didn't have such luck.
Just know I'm using less 'cides than most in my IPM schedules and certainly less water than dirt scratchers except mine is about equal in the hottest part of the summer when our soil drains too well. Luckily we have Hydropower here so my energy/water is cheap. Old Sol is not always here for ya in the PNW. You results may vary in the Great Lakes.
Regardless, The best to you birds. I also hope you keep your land for many years to come. Also know my grandkids will be helping yours.
if you are in the cloudy western part then it would be tougher. do you select shorter season and smaller varieties to grow?
in the eastern parts where there is much more light, then water becomes the limiting factor. i'm lucky to have good water and soil that holds the water along with the heat and sun in the mid-summer.
i've not grown much in the way of hot peppers here (i like a little heat, but Ma cannot tolerate any). the green peppers always do well here and i'd like to get some red peppers going next year as they have a lot of uses and i much prefer eating them. if i can ever find a hot pepper that will grow here that tastes like the aja hot pepper sauce i had years ago i would grow one or two as that was mild enough for me but also had a lot of good flavors. i dislike habaneros (they taste like rotting fruit to me most of the time) and halapenos are bland to me.
if the hot summers continue this might become a good chili growing region. :)
every year is an adventure. :)
extending one crop means delaying others or not being able to get a garden bed sprouted with a cover crop or green manure in time for winter. some plantings i can do in the fall for next year, if those beds are tied up then i'm getting in the way of next year's crops.
i can daydream about a greenhouse addition all i want, but in the end the expense isn't worth the results. i'd do better putting in solar hot water panels -- a more immediate return.
i'm happy, but not particularly proud because we didn't really have to do much other than plant them and water them during the dry spells. a little weeding here or there.
i'm not sure what you are talking about unless you mean the point i was trying to make about what it actually costs to produce a pound of greenhouse tomato compared to what it costs to produce a pound grown in the dirt.
i don't understand you. you quoted wholesale tomato prices not wholesale organic tomato prices. and i'm not a commercial grower anyways. the question i answered was how much did it cost me per pound and i put a number out there and my reasoning behind it. i still have yet to see a number from you. ;)
it's not posturing if i'm backing it up with facts.
:) it all sounds good to me. here, keeping a greenhouse warm enough to keep a rosemary plant would cost a lot of money. the rosemary plant we have comes inside for the winter and sits by the window here in my room. that's all the space for plants i want to bring in. the amaryllis are taking over as it is. gotta give some away soon.
? billy's evil OP? no idea what that means.
the neighbor's garden 150yds away didn't have any luck this year either. but it's really not lack of luck as much as nobody cares much for gardening there. just a little effort in the right direction and they'd get much more for their efforts.
to defend billy a bit, he does garden. :)
yes, i'd like to hear more direct experience from him and less quoting of other sources as this isn't a "post your research quotes" newsgroup.
in the end, i think his heart is in the right place.
sure. our power is mostly either coal or nuclear. the wind and solar is gradually increasing. they are just now adding a 90MW wind farm that will come online this year. the problem here with solar is that the winters are cloudy often enough so it isn't something that gets paid back as quickly as it would in the southwest.
gack! i was just thinking about what i would rather drink, dilute MG or dilute worm tea. can't say i've tasted either. don't intend to.
now my break is over and time to get back out and get the buckets of stuff buried and the grapes cleaned up a bit. if i have any energy left after that then i move on to finishing up thinning the strawberry patch.
they are different varieties. if i wanted red peppers i could have gotten the plants from the greenhouse.
the same with the green peppers, they bloom several times. they are blooming now and we have small ones that have formed, but if the weather gets cold they may never get very large. weather this week looks to be good for tomatoes and peppers. and getting more things done outside.
mild is ok. i like just a little heat, but not enough that you feel the skin peeling off your tongue when you eat them.
the most i like jalapenos is when they are smoked. :)
if i were further south i'd get into more hot kinds as there is a lot of variety out there to sample and i really am hoping to find one that tastes like that aja pepper i had all those years ago.
Psst. Is he gone? When do you think he'll find out that you are just another hemorrhoidal, fat, old man? Whups ;O) shussh.
Anyway, all I got for you is another ol' book report. To wit:
Animal Factory: The Looming Threat of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the Environment by David Kirby
(Available at your local library, until they are closed.)
260 ANIMAL FACTORY
What irked Chuck most was that not all hog farmers [CAFOs] were doing their part to avoid pollution. "And it ticks me off," he said. "I spend so much time and trouble and paperwork on all the things I do ? most of my expenses, really ? for applying and monitoring the waste. And then some guy somewhere just decides to let it go, and then that paints a bad picture for all of us."
Chuck was personally involved in the hunt to make [CAFO] lagoons obsolete.
Chuck introduced them to the inventor, an old farmer named Don Lloyd. Rick and Nicolette watched in wonderment as Chuck and Lloyd explained how it worked.
"We take all the wastewater washed from the barns and pump it into this underground holding tank, where heavy solids settle to the bottom," Chuck said. "Now, this is all the stuff that would normally go into the lagoon. So you see, we've already eliminated the need for a lagoon right from the get-go." Rick liked what he was hearing so far.
Once the solids had settled out, Chuck and Lloyd siphoned water off the top and ran it to a large above-ground tank.
[T]he solids, raw manure cannot be used on food crops because of the harmful pathogens it contains, limiting its commercial value as a fertilizer. Most of the germs can be killed through composting, though that takes time and money to accomplish, without adding enough market value to the manure to make the system economically feasible.
"Then we discovered an answer," Chuck said proudly. "It was worms? vermiculture, they call it." Lloyd devised a system that feeds waste solids to worms on a continual basis. Inside a barn with dirt floors, he had dug several rows of trenches?three feet wide and about twenty-two inches deep?the entire length of the floor. A mix of worms and organic matter were introduced into the trenches, and then specially designed machinery deposited an inch of solids into each trench every morning. By the end of the day, the worms had consumed the entire inch of food, turning it into clean, odorless, disease-free castings. The worms returned to the bottom of the trench, and another layer of, solids was applied to begin the process again.
"I chose a type of worm that turns this stuff into some kind of superfood for plants," Don said. "Farmers and gardeners can't get enough of it; they pay top dollar for it." The worm barn could yield about three tons of the coveted "black gold" each day, he said, adding that the state department of transportation had told him they wanted to buy it for roadside plantings.
"And because of the value added on the manure from those little worms," Chuck concluded with a big grin, "it brings our net costs down to about fourteen
262 I ANIMAL FACTORY
dollars per thousandweight," or a penny and a half per pound. "But this is still in its early stages. We're just a little Chitty Chitty Bang Bang kinda outfit up here."
oh geeze, an inch of pig poo solids a day. that would be hell to me, pig poo is way too stinky. the wormies are probably doing a great job, but i sure wouldn't want to feed that stuff to my worms and then put it on any food plant. pigs eat too much like people for me to want to have stuff coming out their butts to be anywhere near food crops.
roadside fertilizer? you means so the wind can pick up the dust and have many people breathing it as they drive by? washed by rain into the ditches and then streams, rivers, etc. sure some of it is sterilized by the sun and rain, but how many bacteria or virus do you need for some infections? not many. um, no thanks, bad idea.
i can't tell from the quote if the guy is raising his pigs with or without antibiotics and hormones. those i certainly would not want going through to the worms/plants/ground/groundwater.
Bird, a roll of Visqueen and 10' PVC pipe are cheap. easy to make a tall hoop to give ya ~ a month's stretch on the fall side jump. You get enough sun to make it worth the while till it dips below freezing every night , then again in the spring another 3 weeks but even better is starting your seedlings. Me? Not w/o lights.
I gotta run also, have to do some homework on a new system I want to get in before winter. It may not be this year tho.
Best to all
Dam Gunner, you had to leave out my favorite chili. There's nothing like poblanos! Choose the variety carefully, some are wimpy mild and some are spicy. My favorite is "Tiburon". It has a very fruity heat and is delicious in any Latin type dish. If you season is long enough they mature to a deep mahogany. Dry them and the flavor is wonderfully spicy raisons. IMHO the fruity heat is by far the best of the chilies.
In all fairness, Scott's Miracle Grow also comes in the dreaded "organic" form (Miracle-Gro Organic Choice) which is anathema to gunny's vision of a synthetic world.
15 lbs/$16.48 each, or you could buy Home Despots chicken manure for 1 cu. ft./$3.07. gunny is lucky. He can run his hydroponics with hydro-electric power, whereas most would have to depend on coal, or nuclear produced electricity. His way of gardening seems over engineered.
I was trying to keep it short. You want waste water, you got waste water. But remember, Chuck isn't your typical CAFO owner. He, according to the book, is trying to play fair.
Animal Factory: The Looming Threat of Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the Environment by David Kirby
(Available at your local library, until they are closed.)
What irked Chuck most was that not all hog farmers were doing their part to avoid pollution. "And it ticks me off," he said. "I spend so much time and trouble and paperwork on all the things I do?most of my expenses, really ? for applying and monitoring the waste. And then some guy somewhere just decides to let it go, and then that paints a bad picture for all of us." But instead of confronting the bad apples, or closing them down altogether, he said, the pork industry tried to keep quiet and insist there were no problems. "The mistake in our industry has been to shun people like you and run you out the door," he said to Rick, "and give you some pamphlet saying everything's hunky dory on a hog farm. And through the years that's created a frustration within the environmental community?and the media."
Chuck wanted to help develop and use an alternative technology to replace lagoons, but he still defended the basins as safe and effective. "I moved over 150,000 yards of clay to line various lagoons around my farm, eighteen inches thick, compressed with a roller to over ninety-five percent compaction, that I had to send off to a lab and get them to certify before I could put the first drop of water in it," he explained. "I've spent millions building these lagoons. They're not just holes punched in the ground that leak manure into the water tables. That's just ridiculous."
Even so, Chuck was personally involved in the hunt to make lagoons obsolete. He and a small group of investor/hog farmers were developing their own system for adoption by the state. One day. Chuck invited Rick and Nicolette Hahn to see the prototype he was developing.
Chuck introduced them to the inventor, an old farmer named Don Lloyd. Rick and Nicolette watched in wonderment as Chuck and Lloyd explained how it worked.
"We take all the wastewater washed from the barns and pump it into this underground holding tank, where heavy solids settle to the bottom," Chuck said. "Now, this is all the stuff that would normally go into the lagoon. So you see, we've already eliminated the need for a lagoon right from the get-go." Rick liked what he was hearing so far.
Once the solids had settled out, Chuck and Lloyd siphoned water off the top and ran it to a large above-ground tank. "Once there, we inject the water with something called TCM, or trichloromelamine; it's a sanitizer, attacks the
GOING NATIONAL 261
bad organics and stuff," Chuck said. "Makes it like pure water. The United States uses it in Afghanistan for our troops."
After the microorganisms were killed, a polymer was then injected into the water?the tiny polymer beads bound with paniculate matter that got through the separator and clumped them together, pulling them down to the bottom of the tank. "You can actually see the liquid getting clearer," Chuck marveled. When that process was finished, the water was removed from the top and the residual matter was ejected through a hopper at the bottom of the tank.
Some of the cleaned water was then recycled back to the barns?to hose down the floors and flush the manure pits back out into the underground separator tank, starting the whole closed-circuit process over again. The remaining liquid was mixed with fresh aquifer water, diluting its particulate content to the point of human drinkability.
To prove it, Don gulped down a glass of the former hogwash. The guests gasped. "Why, it tastes just fine" he said, smiling and wiping his mouth. "But we don't usually drink it?we give it to the pigs to drink. It cuts down our groundwater use by about 40 percent."
That left the solids. Raw manure cannot be used on food crops because of the harmful pathogens it contains, limiting its commercial value as a fertilizer. Most of the germs can be killed through composting, though that takes time and money to accomplish, without adding enough market value to the manure to make the system economically feasible.
"Then we discovered an answer," Chuck said proudly.
I do agree wholeheartedly w/ ya about the "raisin" and Chile en Nogada is an all time fav, but most here do not appreciate it enough for me to make often. So that just for me and the wife. I usually keep an oz or two of Ancho powder on hand, using it instead of Paprika.
But know I just picked this evening a nice Poblano that was changing colors. The heat; high 80s for 4-5 hrs but nights in the high 40-low
50s. Beautiful deep maroon with green highlights. There a bit small and sparse here in the open. It was only 2 x 3 inches but still such a pretty color. Only got 10-12 still left on the plants and the growing phase is pretty much over with the Indian summer fading more quickly than I would like. So some peppers and some toms are going to go down green.
Here is the Wiki thing for those still curious about what your talking about: "The poblano is a mild chili pepper originating in the State of Puebla, Mexico. Dried, it is called a chile ancho. "
from reading it, yes, he's at least doing something and i'm glad for it. likely if there are any further problems found he will be one of the people who will work on figuring it out too.
...
i think he's talking about the wastewater treatment system here and not the water. :)
this is a basic waste water treatment plant. so he's moved the technology from the municipal plant to his own local system.
the polymer is recycled and reused or does it go to the landfill?
trichloromelamine? sounds like a chlorine derivative and some of those turn organic materials into carcinogens don't they?
major good right there.
some, but like i said above, it's good to see someone making the effort.
it depends upon the feed...
i wouldn't want that used on roadsides either. i think all manures should be buried after spreading to minimise them going airborne.
the theory i've seen so far that holds the most credibility to me is that the antibiotics reduce the infection level so that the animal has more energy to devote to growth. at least as long as it doesn't get a resistant strain...
i don't like them either, but like you see that most people will not go free range or reduce their meat consumption until it is impossible to sustain it further. it is more likely that the future will be more vegetarian eventually out of sheer need for more food for people and less available to feed animals. the market price for meats will increase enough to push them out of the regular diet for most of the lower classes. a $25 chicken is likely for those who cannot raise their own.
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