Hi All,
4 star petrol is being taken off the market in the U.K. there is a subsitute to add to the fuel to cover this problem. do you have this problem in the U.S.A. if so have you solved it ?. I have all so heard that due the emisions problem the U.S.A. is about to phase out 2 stroke engines. is this true ?. and if it is so were does this leave people with 2 stroke engines in good working order. Mantis tillers e.t.c, thank tou for your help, and I hope this is not off topic.Richard M. Watkin.
Richard, I think they are phasing out the 2 stroke engines over here. I KNOW they are for boat motors. We use the same fuel for either type engine except that 2 stroke engines require that oil be added in with the fuel. The only time I have seen it pre mixed is at certain marinas where you can buy it pre mixed for your boat. I've never heard of 4 star petrol but I can only assume it is petrol with the oil mixed in. If it's something else, I'd be interested to know what it is. Not all 2 stroke engines require the same ratio of oil to fuel. Pre mixed fuel would need to have enough for any engine and therefore too much oil for some. That alone is a good reason to stop selling it that way.
Steve
R M. Watk> Hi All,
I agree with Steve. I have 3, 2 cycle motors. The mantis, chainsaw, and weedwacker. They all take a different fuel to oil mixture. I buy 2 cycle oil from the store and mix my own at the appropriate mixtures for each one and keep them in separate (and labeled) plastic gas containers.
-- Steve
Hi All.
4 star petrol is petrol which contained lead, which has been taken off the market in favour of unleaded petrol. now from what I can find out, if you run a normal 4 stroke engine on unleaded petrol it will burn the valve guides out, unless the engine has been built to run on unleaded petrol. am I right in assuming a 2 stroke engine has no valves ?.now to the second point if they are phasing out 2 stroke engines for boats, how long will it be before they phase them out for other things like tillers e.t.c. and how long will it be before 2 stroke engines will become redundant through lack of fuel and 2 stroke oil e.t.c. I am lead to believe this is all because of the emisions problem and global warming e.t.c. hope this makes more sense to you now.
Richard M. Watkin.
OK, that explains what 4 star means. Over here we got rid of lead in our fuel years ago. At least 10 years, maybe 15. (gosh, maybe 20?) There was quite a bit of concern when they phased it out. I was told by one engine repair guy to just use one grade higher and there would be no problem. I don't know what system they might use where you are but here regular is 87 octane and the next grade up is usually 89. Actually, I have some doubt that the guy knew what he was talking about. Some of my lawn and garden equipment is old enough to be from the leaded fuel days. I don't even bother with the higher octane now. I never had an engine get into trouble with the new fuel and I don't know anyone who did.
As far as 2 stroke engines having valves... well they must. Isn't it the valves that let in the fuel/air mixture and let the exhaust back out?
Steve (the first one) :-)
Yeah I've heard that one as well. They do have valves, they're just not the same kind you have in a 4 stroke. They have reed valves which are one way valves that open on the upstroke as pressure inside the cylinder is reduced.
Hi All,
thank you all for your response to my question. it seems to me any one about to buy a 2 stroke engine, should think very carefully as they may left with a usless piece of equipment. there are still 2 stroke engines for sale in U.K. even though government must know they are to be phased out. any one reading this in the U.K. be warned this govenment will leave you in the lurch, as they did when you had to scrap your car with the unleaded affair
Richard M.Watkin.
Some of the high performance engines of the era, the big Ford V8 was one, had poppet valves that rotated slighly with each movement. Touted as a self grinding effect. I knew of several of those that went down with Sunoco Sunlight. Never had any effect on heavy engines like old tractors and Briggs type engines.
The only leaded gasoline sold in the US that I am aware of is a type of aviation fuel called LL100 (LL=low lead). It is formulated for older aircraft engines that were originally run on leaded gasoline.
There are fewer and fewer 2 stroke engines being sold; as you suggested because of their emission problems. They are well on their way to disappearing in boat motors, recreational vehicles motors, lawn mowers and similar places where simplicity, light weight, and ease of repair were virtues.
4 stroke engines are inherently more complex. It may be somewhat like what has happened with automobile engines. We have traded a simple, easily maintained design that required more maintenance for more complex designs that are more reliable and just about impossible for and ordinary human to repair.
I really don't see it as a problem. We've had unleaded gas (petrol) here in the US for a loooooooooooooooooong time and I see no end in sight for 2 strokes. They definately serve a niche market. I also don't see a problem with oil either. Even if they got rid of "2 stroke" oil, I'd just use regular oil. We used it in a Poulan chainsaw for quite a while when we were in a remote area cutting and ran out of
2 cycle oil and it ran just fine.
The biggest reason there are so many 2 stroke engines is the terrific power to weight advantage over the run of the mill 4 stroke. Imagine the weight of a weed wacker if it were to have say a Briggs and Stratton engine on it. As for the leaded fuel, the advent of sodium filled valves and stellite valve seats has removed one need for the lead in the fuel. Top end lubrication (valves and seats) was only a side benefit leaded fuel with the largest being the CHEAP octane boost it gave fuels. Much of the fuel on the market today has the same octane rating as did leaded fuels with the difference being the cost of processing. As with everything in life the is an associated cost, on one hand is clean air and lead free environment and on the other higher fuel cost.
Mack
the clasic (old) 2 stroke design did not have valves. the new ones though do have valves to get improved performance at the fuel burning process. i do not thinnk that a two stroke engine will have any problem to operate with any oil type as long as it has the right density so that it will provide the correct lubricant effect. after the lubrication of the oil the oil is burned with the rest of the fuel. i believe that even filtered waste oil from kitchens could be suitable (as a lubricant) for two stroke engines. some years i saw an article about a guy who used fried potatoes oil for his petrol car as fuel (not even as lubricant) with excellent results.
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