Electrical Ring adding a new twin socket

[devo.uk]

Hi

I am helping out installing a new socket

The existing socket is a trip base dual domestic socket. Its part of a ring main which has 2.5 twin core and earth.

I need to run a socket for to the middle of the room (i have done this as a test - the breaker came on .. then about 5 minutes it tripped - what could be the cause of this)

Firstly should i run 2.5 twin core and earth.. or can i get away with

1.5mm ?

I also saw on a website it would be all right just to run a single cable instead of running a ring back... ?

Finally should i remove the trip socket to the end of this line .. and just put a normal face plate / blanking plate across this unused socket.

What advice can people provide on the above as I would like to get this resolved

Many thanks

devo

[Andy Champ]

What's one of them?

I fail to understand this.

You might get away with 1.5. Or you might get prosecuted, or burn your house down. Your call.

True.

Ask the people in uk.d-i-y. And someone else who can explain about Part P and such like - I'm fairly sure what you are suggesting now requires a legally competent electrician to perform, or at least to check. I've cross-posted this for you.

Andy.

[Tim W]

Andy Champ wibbled on Sunday 01 November 2009 16:13

OP: could you rephrase that please - I don't understand it either.

Yep - again, in clear English please. What did you do, step by step...

OP: Please read this. Anything that's unclear, feel free to come back any query it here, but do read it first.

What's a "trip socket"? Do you mean "socket with inbuilt RCD"?

In principle you could join the cable there and put a blank on.

OP again:

Your questions indicate that you are far from comfortable dealing with this.

I won't prejudge you, but I will ask: "do you feel that you are competent".

Do you appreciate things like grommets in metal back boxes, stripping cables correctly, good workmanship, cable routing (is it OK to run one next to a hot rad pipe - what about 15mm under the plaster?) etc. It isn;t exactly rocket science to add a new socket but you do require *some* knowledge.

Anyway have a read and a think and come back.

Cheers

Tim

[Micky Savage]

Thank my god your not helping me. get a spark before you kill yourself or some other poor sod.

(1.5mm for a socket ) behave.

Micky

[NT]

I presume an rcd socket on a 2.5mm T&E ring circuit.

do you mean the breaker on the socket itself? If so, a fault in whatever was plugged into it will normally be the cause. If nothing was plugged in, its either wet, really filthy or faulty.

2.5 really. You should get away with 1.5, but much better to keep it legit.

you can connect it as a spur. But if a ring is also doable its the better option.

I dont see any reason to, what do you want to do?

we need more detailed description, something somewhere tripped is too vague.

NT

[AJH]

It may sound obvious but if you don't know what you are doing then get someone is who does.

[devo.uk]

Ok to clarify some points

I stated that there is an RCD Twin Socket and every seems to have never seen one

is where the current ring main is established.

I have worked as sparky apprentice but you rely sometimes on their guidance.

I work in computers and burglar alarm security I dont call everyone and idiot because they cant do something. I understand we are talking slightly different with mains but I came on here asking for advice. I would say I have got a pretty good idea of what I am trying to achieve.

Normally we run an extension cable to get this extra point. I just trying to erridicate this with adding the socket. Now I understand that 2.5mm is the standard on a ring main but when you know there is not a heavy load, you can use 1.5mm.

So the first part has been answered : yes you can use 1.5mm twin and earth but use 2.5mm twin and earth

Again going to the trip socket :

I was wondering since I am spurring off this and not adding to the ring that the socket was it compromise the rcd in the socket hence the problem

I understand about grommets on back boxes, and running cables (the cables are actually being run under a void and not near any radiator pipes and have been clipped down.

I have correct tools, including multi meter where i have checked the new cable for any earth fault or leak between the existing connection.

If it was due to incompetency why does the ring not trip out the master circuit breaker at the distribution board until about 5 mins on resetting ? !!! rather than tripping on turning the breaker on.

I hope this has made it a bit clearer .

NO I am not a sparky, but I think I am capable of doing this job. I understand there is constructive advice on here

[romic]

The wiring for the spur would be connected to the back of the RCD socket at the same terminals as the existing two ring main cables. Therefore, I can't see how that would have any effect on the RCD as the RCD should only be protecting the actual socket outlets on the RCD. Or are you connecting the spur to one of the sockets on the RCD - i.e. plugging the spur into front of the RCD?

If plugging into the front of the RCD then there would seem to be a fault between the plug and the spur.

As regards cable sizes for spurs etc., I was always under the impression that the same size cable should be used that was on the existing circuit (e.g. 2.5mm for a ring circuit) because the cable would be the same rating as fuse / mcb - the same principle as not using a 13A fuse in a plug that has 3A wire leading to table light, for example. The reason being that, although the equipment (in this example the light bulb of a few watts) wasn't drawing much current, if there was a fault in the equipment, a much greater current could be drawn than what the cable was rated for, but may not be enough to blow the fuse or trip the mcb. This could create a fire risk.

Roger

[John Whitworth]

No - you said there was a "trip base dual domestic socket".

Except you didn't describe it at all well.

The spur is surely coming from the back of the socket? And therefore the type of socket that you are spurring from has no bearing on the spur, and vice versa? I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a plug-in RCD adaptor would still be expected to work on a socket which is hosting a spur. And your twin RCD socket is surely just like a normal twin outlet, with built in RCDs?

JW

[ARWadsworth]

Then that part was answered incorrectly. Use 2.5mm T&E.

There is no reason that you cannot take a spur from the back of this socket to a new socket. The RCD is seperate from the spur.

To be fair, you do not have the correct testing equipment.

It would be clearer if you told us what the master circuit breaker is that tripped:-)

Adam