We're about to have some stone accent veneers added to the front of
our new home. We've been putting this off for more than a year since
the house was finished, and we're finally doing it. Question is...
What can I expect this to cost? I already know the stone is costing
$2,800, but I don't know what to expect for labor. Our mason told us
it will take four of his guys 10 hours (40 man hours) to lay the
stone. But he still hasn't gotten back to us with a precise estimate
(he's on vacation) and we need to plan our finances. Can anyone give
me a ballpark estimate of what 40 man-hours would cost? This is small-
town midwest and these guys are well regarded but not considered "high
end" contractors--just good. They have trucks with fancy graphics,
and good reputations, but they generally just do small jobs in our
rural area, like brick on the front of ranch homes, stone accent
walls, repair old stone houses, etc. I know you can't give me an
exact amount, but I'm just looking for a very rough range to help us
On Mar 22, 5:39 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
You think you are asking a simple question, but you are not.
I would _strongly_ suggest you stop this line of thinking.
It will only come back to bite you and your contractor.
Any number you get from anyone other than from your mason will be
Your mason will not be on vacation forever. Wait for them.
You don't think applying a wild guess of $100 per MH and giving the OP
that number isn't a good idea?
I mean, what's 40 MH x $100 = $4,000 between friends? Come to think of it,
$100/MH in this case seems pretty cheap. If the stone costs $2800, then I
think a labor cost that is 3 to 5 times the material cost wouldn't be out
In the end, your are, of course, correct. So, I will pass along the same
WAIT FOR YOUR CONTRACTOR TO COME BACK FROM VACATION!!!
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Four men are going to lay 2800 dollars worth of stone in 10 hours? One
long day? I would find this hard to believe though the details are not
there. Natural stone? Cultured (man made)? Size? Walls? Flatwork? Low,
high? Substrate? Intricate? Big open areas? On and on.
There are too many variables to even allow for a rough estimate. Around
here (mid atlantic) billing $30 per hour per man is not uncommon. That
said, I would be very surprised if you could lay $2800 worth of any
stone for 1200 dollars.
Interesting point. Not your dollars, but the time involved. Maybe
it's a thin stone veneer and they have a bunch of corners, that'd
explain the expense, but that stuff doesn't go up that quickly.
I guess we'll have to wait for the mason to get back from vacation to
find out! ;)
I could see 2800 dollars of cut blue stone slabs (steps) perhaps being
laid in a day with a machine and 4 guys. But if its any kind of mortar
work I would be shocked.
That said, I am working in the land of ultra cheap labor (and expected
end results) so nothing would surprise me.
The "fancy graphics and good reputations" thing is what perked my senses.
It'll be interesting to hear what HappyHumanist finds out.
Around here, in DC, I can go to a local 7/11 and get a day-laborer who does
good mason work for $12/hr. Plenty of supply too. Guess what, I have no
problemo with it either because they are not lazy and work their arses off.
Yeah that's the right way. Find some unknown illegal guy with no
credentials as an american or as a mason and work the shit out of him
and then when the wall falls down you just get another guy etc etc
etc. You can do this your way or the right way.
For clarification, from Wiki:
* Maroon, Bugs Bunny's civil wording for Moron
I find it amazing that no other dictionary has that definition. I
almost never use the word maroon to mean the color or referring to
being stranded on an island. ;)
Well I cant really argue with you. Unfortunately you are a part of the
growing norm in the US though I dont agree with your position. I have my
own position on the subject but with a post like yours it seems like its
wasted text to present it.
I do know, with one hundred percent clarity, that you or your immediate
family will one day come to regret this position you take. Its just a
matter of time before it will cut into your immediate comfort circle.
I am not a protectionist nor an advocate of border closure by any means.
Let them in I say. However as long as they dont operate on a level
playing feild with the rest of us, I will guarantee you that your
position will negatively affect everyone, including the immagrants, in time.
The reason that Mexicans cross the border and work on what is other
than an "even playing field" is because of the artificial barrier that
separates our countries. Until we finally have a global economy in
which people can travel and work wherever we please, there will always
be inequities that encourage illegal immigration. When you have two
separate political systems, they will never be perfectly equal
systems, and one side will always want to cross over and take
advantage of the other, good or bad. And worse, as long as there is
an artificial barrier that impedes geographical and economic freedom,
social pressures continue to build that *WILL* eventually be released,
perhaps quite violently. Mexicans are human beings, just like us.
The concept of "race" was created by racists, and to distinguish
between Mexicans and Americans and make generalizations based on that
distinction is racist. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a
complete and immediate dissolution of our country's borders; rather we
need to gradually work toward a truly global economy and make the
transition as gracefully as possible. But we need to at least be
moving in the *DIRECTION* of a pure global economy. In the meantime,
I assure you, one day, everyone will regret that people like yourself
have taken the position that you do, just as the vast majority of us
regret past institutions like slavery and imperialism (or I should say
*MORE SEVERE* imperialism).
By the way, when our house was being built, the only part of our house
that was screwed up was the drywall, particularly the tape/mud and the
texture. The job was awarded to an overpriced "white" guy in a brand
new truck with fancy graphics who turned out to be a grifter with poor
skills in the trade. About the same time, a friend of mine hired a
crew of Mexicans at about 25% of the cost, and his drywall is
perfect. At this point, if I was a simple-minded racist who forms
generalizations based on a small number of experiences, I would draw
the conclusion that Mexicans are superior tradesman. But I prefer to
turn to my old friends logic, reason, and objectivity, and conclude
that one can *NOT* make generalizations based on race, ethnicity,
creed, or culture, but rather make objective decisions based on each
unique situation's unique circumstances.
Oh, and your clansman's robe is showing underneath your shirt. Tuck
- The Happy Humanist
Your assumptions couldnt be farther from correct. Did you read the part
where I said "let them in"? I have been arguing against any form of
immigration reform presented to date as I am well aware they are filling
an important void in this country but unfortunately we have become
reliant, to a point of no going back, on them. This is hurting both us
AND them in the long run. With regards to immigration I am a liberal's
liberal. So your assumption of a robe and cap is shooting you in the
foot. Good work, you blew your big toe off on that shot.
Where the negative affect I spoke of will come is in what we are
currently seeing. The migrant workers "load" on the system to which they
are not contributing a single cent. I say let them stay, bring more in
fact, but let them contribute. By being paid cash dollars they are not
contributing to the health care they consume, the potable water they
consume, the sewerage they consume, the roads they consume, on and on. I
am all for them being here, open the boarders wide. That said, make
everyone who reaps the rewards of the US contribute to the costs of the
goods they consume and enjoy. This is far from the case with todays
With regards to your global economy, I also agree. We need to create a
trade environment that allows potential immigrants the opportunity to
earn a sustainable and profitable living in their homeland should _they
choose_ to stay. Should they choose to come here, come on in but be
ready to contribute.
That said, you need to put your money where your mouth is and go lobby
the 8 families in Mexico who hold the entire country in a perpetual
state of poverty for their own personal gain and power. It has nothing
to do with much other than that. Dont place all the blame elsewhere. The
US is not its neighbors sole savior. The rulers and the people have to
have some culpability in saving themselves.
The US can not be held accountable to rid Mexico of all its corruption
and hierarchy. Perhaps another revolution is in order?
With regards to Central American countries it is widely agreed that
trade tariffs need to come down to allow the residents of these
countries to earn an honest and profitable living within their own
borders should they desire to stay. This is far from complete but it
seems the initial stages are in effect. Vote.
As for now, people like you, who argue to blindly reward those who
cheat the system simply exacerbate the problem as you give the very
people you fight for the false impression that the current wages they
earn are what can be expected for eternity. Wait til' a system is in
place, which it will be, that allows these workers to stay but they have
to pay the 40+ percent tax that we all have to pay weekly. When their 10
dollars an hour cash is cut to 6 and they are subject to IRS audits like
the rest of us I have to wonder if you will see the influx remain at its
I applaud the immigrant labor who established themselves here legally
and builds businesses for themselves. I know a framing crew personally
that is owned and operated ABOVE THE TABLE by a Mexican immigrant here
legally. It should be held up as a symbol that it can be done right.
There is no need to cheat and steal from the system that is providing
you with the necessities you need.
People like you who blindly jump to conclusions without probing deeper
and argue for the status quo are the reason we stay in this perpetual mess.
I disagree. I believe the statement is correct, and so do a lot of
other enlightened people, and that's why I wrote it. "The concept of
'race' was created by racists." You've established that you disagree
with that statement. That's fine. But I prefer to not use racial
labels. They're useless to me. I can't see any value in the labels
except for racists, including closet racists and racists in denial.
You do understand the irony in labeling someone as racist and yourself
as enlightened, don't you? They're all parts of the prejudice pie.
May I suggest a nice fruit smoothie instead? I'm about to make one
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