desiging for a Haiti scale earthquake

While is it tragic what happened in Haiti I am wondering if a building could even be effectively designed to withstand the magnitude of the Haiti earthquake......... in-otherwords would say the Calf. Building code have prevented many of the deaths and destruction in Haiti or was this earthquake just too strong. I use Calf. building code only because I know that state has many earthquakes and does try and prepare their buildings for one.

I'm asking this question because if the United States is going to be the ones to primarily rebuild the schools, hospitals, roads, etc. in Haiti then perhaps We should just make the country part of us so at least we know things will get built right and perhaps prevent these things from happening again as such a large catastrophic disaster.

Reply to
don
Loading thread data ...

"don" wrote in news:hiqsdg$c1p$ snipped-for-privacy@reader1.panix.com:

Difficult to assess the situation at this stage. Seems to me an inordinate amount of damage to buildings that look to have been reasonably constructed, eg massive concrete frame connections torn completely apart. However, not much evidence of tortion joints anywhere? The seismic scale doesn't really tell us much. Where was the epicenter? Right underneath Port au Prince? A lot depends on the geology. My experience is limited to PNG; The Siassi Earthquake, 7.8, caused a few landslides, sprung some pipes and swimming pools ... not much else. 7.8 in Mexico City would be major, because (I'm told) the city is basically sitting in a bowl of rock, so the reciprocating wave is greatly magnified.

Reply to
Martin Clark

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:

Interesting stuff Ken, not so far from something I have been working on. [Got put on the back-burner, but there is a looming housing affordability crisis here, it is now unlawful for land developers to mandate minimum size for dwellings, so maybe it will come to the front again ...]

20 x 20 ... I was working on a 6m (19.7ft) x 3.5m (11.5ft) module. 6m easily fits on a flatbed truck, 3.5m because that's a "wide" load but not "exceptional" load under local road rules. 1 module has enough space to comply as a dwelling, Can be lifted with simple cranage. 2 makes a family unit.

Not sure of flat roofs for the tropics - uncommon here ...

Framed structures work well. Heat is gained, sure, but easily lost after sunset, whereas masonry is a heat store and hugely inefficient unless fully protected from the sun.

My stuff on design in the tropics, affordable housing, etc:

formatting link
A personal take, but some of my stuff has been referenced by Prof Dick Aynsley, UNESCO Professor of Architecture.

This was also the target price for the stuff I was working on - in Oz dollars but there's more or less parity these days :-)

1000 gallons = +/- 3636 litres. Yep. It looks like Haiti has more periods of tropical maritime than a typical wet tropics climate - dry periods rather than rain almost every evening. Average rainfall only slightly higher than NQ 'dry' tropics, but at least it doesn't all come down at once? Tanks might work ok, but will need to be mozzy-proof. That part of the Caribbean has Dengue as well.

Framed construction can work well where there are both earth tremours and cyclones/hurricanes. Where wind is concerned, design is dependent on a continuous load path throughout the structure, from roof surface to foundation. The problem is not primarily the materials (provided they are adequate), but how they are fixed together. I'm not so familiar with earth movement, but, as I said before, joints need to have some sort of torsion function. I've seen massive timber beam/column joints holding up in an earthquake, because the joints were vine lashings - the joints tighten as they move. Plate and bolt joints just tear apart.

Not sure about double glazing. Here, 6mm laminated glass, usually min. 21% solar-reduced, plus extra-toughened for smaller spaces such as bathrooms. Or maybe leave out the glass. Shutters would help protect from flying debris, as long as they aren't the first thing to come off when the wind gets up.

In PNG we had small electric heaters to keep the air drier in enclosed spaces like wardrobes. Not very effective. Maximising air movement is best. Also discourages mosquitoes - they like still air. Good supply of plastic tubs with lids and silica gel helps protect small items. Btw - dunno whether they've improved over the years, but in my time, printed circuit boards literally took on a life of their own in the humid tropics.

Reply to
Martin Clark

The initial building envelope is 16'x16', with loft area for sleeping and storage, and a front porch. This is a totally stand alone application, off grid, if you will. Most of the big stuff has been worked out and the finer aspects are currently being worked on. This package will be modular, in that it will be fabricated in a facility, loaded onto ONE truck and then assembled on site. The difficult part is making it modular and able to fit on one truck. Aside from foundation requirements, this package can be made move-in ready by 2 capable adults in less than 1 week after site delivery. Total package cost? $15,000.00 US + delivery

Reply to
creative1986

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:b0282604-56d9-4b1a- snipped-for-privacy@14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com:

I reckon 20 x 20 (6 x 6) also. Done as 2 x 6 x 3 modules? Bolt together or freestanding - gap between has shade sail? In the interim period a 20 x 20 will end up with at least two families in it. Cooking outside.

Reply to
Martin Clark

See, you have to start with a set of parameters in order to have a beam of focus. For your vision 20x20 works, for mine 16x16 will work. Target - focus - goal.

Reply to
creative1986

It ain't what *I* think, its what the people in charge think and what they think changes all the time. Back about 2004 I predicted that some day the only home design that will meet code approval will be cast concrete dome homes. I stand by that still.

Reply to
creative1986

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

Apologies. I used to think in both eg "3m of 4 by 2 " now I'd tend to say "3m of 100 x 50 ". Not much better. 1 meter = 3.2808399 feet 1 foot =

0.3048 meters - but here it's 'metre' (French). Corbusier reckoned they should drop the metric system and use imperial units because they are related to the human body / step etc whereas the metre is a fraction of the circumference of the earth (and apparently they got it a bit wrong). A wonder the Academie Francaise didn't go after him. Ah yes he was Swiss....

The ply to both sides of walls should provide enough resistance to sheer. But what about bottom plates to substructure? What stops the whole frame lifting off the base? Traditional lightweight framing for cyclonic areas has cyclone bolts - threaded rod running the full height of the structure, nuts and washers each end. There's a generous floor to ceiling height, so the framing above door and window heads could be ply-faced trusses. Maybe vertical trusses either side of openings.

Nice touch - simple.

Cyclonic (Hurricane) wind speed ratings here now range from 50 m/s (metres per second) for built-up and sheltered areas, 61 m/s for open areas, 74 - 86 m/s for rising slopes and escarpment lines. How would the ply handle impact from flying debris? Better than most alternative materials I guess ...

Best local report:

formatting link
[ may need line-wrap removed]

Fair enough. But not - I trust - concrete dome (later in the thread). In the tropics the occupants will be cooked :-(

Cheers

Martin C

Reply to
Martin Clark

"Naomi Klein Issues Haiti Disaster Capitalism Alert: Stop Them Before They Shock Again

--Klein-haiti

Journalist and author Naomi Klein spoke in New York last night and addressed the crisis in Haiti: 'We have to be absolutely clear that this tragedy=97which is part natural, part unnatural=97must, under no circumstances, be used to, one, further indebt Haiti and, two, to push through unpopular corporatist policies in the interest of our corporations. This is not conspiracy theory. They have done it again and again.' "

-- Democracynow.org

As for temp/emergency/or even permanent shelter/housing for Haiti and anywhere else, I'm inclined to suggest some natural building techniques. At the outset, this would also seem to offer Haiti some element of independence and control.

Reply to
Ben nassar

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:

Looks good - I can't see any of that taking off in a hurry.

Ditto. I'm sitting here in the middle of a monsoon trough, and there's a branch landed on the roof, so I'd better get out there before it all slides off ...

For what can happen with flying debris, my local favourite:

formatting link
Amazing ... I think it's a piece of spotted gum or similar hardwood. Alexandra palms became more popular after this was published.

Btw - the image was used by engineers to calculate the wind speed, along with traffic signs where the posts had sheared at ground level. No anemometers around capable of staying together long enough.

Cheers Martin C

Reply to
Martin Clark

snipped-for-privacy@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

Is Florida considered the tropics? If not, it should be. HA! Anyway, the domes will be sprayed with 12" of foam and all utilities (HVAC) will be underground (basement) in waterproof, airtight compartments. These domes will be permanently anchored to gaia with 40' long x 14" sq tapered cast concrete pilings placed strategically around the perimeter of the cast concrete domes. The floors will be cast in place as well and all exterior penetrations will be able to withstand 1000 psi of pressure.

15 years ago I designed a Wafflehouse that faced the ocean with these specs, cept for the dome part. It was waterproof to a height of 10' and engineered to never lift off the ground no matter how high the water rose and the windows were manuf'd by the company that did the glass at Seaworld. Yes, its all prohibitively expensive but, as the LIEberals say, "What price can you put on a life?" LOL
Reply to
creative1986

Modification is my middle name. If I let something set for a spell I find a better/different way of doing it, thats just the way it is.

Now 16'x16' may seem tight to some, but it was *you* that gave me the idea to do it that way. See, I had to *focus* on the goal, and the goal was to provide a comfortable, inexpensive, self contained, off-grid home for 1 or 2 people. My favored lifestyle won't fit in that shoebox. However, maybe the key isn't in the size but rather the quantity.

*You* told me you have an out building or 2 on your property. I'm thinking the same thing. A separate building for housing a vehicle or 2, snowmobile(s), canoes/ kayaks, gardening equipment, wood stove fuel, tools, etc., etc. That building would actually be built first and would facilitate the building of the dwelling for storage, temporary quarters, etc.
Reply to
creative1986

snipped-for-privacy@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

Same thing on the islands I design homes on cept all the hardware, even the plates on the trusses, must be stainless steel, and the rods (and bolts on the piling/stringer connections) must be retorqued after

1 year, so access to them must be provided. ALL exterior lumber and all framing members must be pressure treated or better.

I was recently informed that because of the increase in the thickness of the window channels all rough openings must be at least 2" bigger than before and they now require full 1/4" x 6" lags (with lead sleeves for concrete construction) for anchorage (4" from each corner and 12" o/c). There's more stuff too but I won't bore you. :-)

Reply to
creative1986

Please Note: Ben nassar's post is actually mine. (I presume he also posted through Google Groups to another group before my arrival.)

Reply to
Warm Worm

snipped-for-privacy@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:

Now I can tear up a few plates of them fish and chips but that pork n bean on toast thing...good gawd man, whats wrong with you? You HAVE to put cut up hot dogs in them beans!!!!! And that spalted gum, I'll give ya $10US for it right now. Would make a right nice candlestick it would. Incidently, at 200mph that Alexandra Palm prolly had a nice bend to it, so that gum-arrow was heading toward the ground when the impact occurred. Regardless, it would have went all the way through a human body no questions asked. How far were you personally from the eye?

Reply to
creative1986

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@v7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com:

Sure would. There's other similar pictures floating around - one of a huge beam that stopped just above a bed - that the owner was sheltering under .... Colleague of mine had a home-made roof vent fixed on his mother's roof. Survived completely undamaged. I reckon he should patent the design.

150km or so. The more powerful the cyclone the more localised the effect. At the time my job included trying to persuade builders that they needed to take notice. Currently we have ex-tropical cyclone Olga, now a rain depression, wobbling about wondering whether to dump on all of us. The place will cope with 300mm over 48 hours but 400mm over 4 hours will be different, especially with king tides on the way.
Reply to
Martin Clark

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@a22g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

Interesting. Finally starting to see stainless steel here instead of galvanised. Here it's usually only cyclone rods that can be accessed for retorquing. I have accessible bolts in my house framing. Composite steel/hardwood framed "Tomi" house (Reunion Island architect Maurice Tomi's EXN system).

Reply to
Martin Clark

Speaking of *parameters*, who is paying for the above? If it is paid for persons other than the occupants then there will be no pride of ownership or personal responsibility.

My understanding was that much of that place was already a ghetto resulting in part because of the enormous governmental encroachments over the past 100 years or so and really all the way back to 1492.

I got a couple tarps and 5 gallon buckets I'll donate.

Yes, conveyed, that is a good word.

Reply to
creative1986

On Jan 27, 3:11=A0pm, Martin Clark wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@v7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com:

In Florida all the *specialists* advise getting under something heavy, such as a door header or under a big table, or in a small room and I have reservations about that. My first thought is, "What do you want to have collapse on you, something heavy or something light?" I tend to look at things from a structural perspective and I can usually judge pretty good the the holding capacity of stuff, such as door headers and the weight they are already carrying. Interior headers are not normally headers at all but simple 2x construction and will offer not much resistance to a roof collapse.

Hurricane Charlie, in 2004, caused me to readjust my outlook on hurricanes as it was the first one I had ever went through in 38 years of living in southwest Florida. Lots of close calls but never any direct hits, til then. We were 3 miles from the eye and the environment was completely barbaric. My wife and son huddled in the laundry room the whole time only peeking out occaisionally to see whats up. But I had to remain vigilant, I had to know what was getting ready to kill me and get out of its way if possible. I watched the bank of sliding glass doors in our living room bend-in severly in the middle and put all my weight against it to keep them from buckling. Meanwhile outside I saw the concrete filled PVC posts of our 6' high estate fence snap off in domino fashion and whole 8' long fence panels shudder then vanish. I later found one over half a mile away and they rest were never seen again. Yes, it sounds like what you'd imagine a freight train sounds like. And the power of such a thing is truly unimaginable if you haven't experienced it. The whole earth concentrating that power in a small specific area is downright terrifying. It will humble all.

During that period and for several years prior most of my design work was on the barrier islands off the coast. The body of water beween the isands and the mainland runs vertically along the coast and is called Pine Island Sound and that was the *highway* that Charlie chose to follow. Entering the south end of the sound it Charlie headed northerly with 200+ mph winds, scouring the land on both sides of the sound. The east side of the sound was mainly wetlands with very few buildings and the west side was a scattering of islands, Sanibel, Captiva, North Captiva, Cayo Costa, Useppa, Boca Grand and all of them received severe damage. Over the next few months I worked on 49 different remodeling jobs on those islands. I saw a wall in a master bedroom on the 4th floor of a $4mil home completely encased in at least 12" thick seaweed. Under the seaweed, hidden from view, was a $100k entertainment system, completely destroyed. My first job was the home that had received the most expensive loss ever in hurricane history in the US. A home valued at $3mil, which faced directly on the Gulf of Mexico, where some of the pilings snapped and the top floor collapsed down onto the floor below, buckling the wooden pilings on the ground floor. All of that had to be removed before reconstruction could begin. The most amazing thing was that the 2nd floor kitchen had corian countertops with an island with a 12" cantilevered snack bar. Well that snack bar cantilever is where the corner of the collapsed floor above landed and it held the load but transferred it to the pilings below. That corian is some STRONG stuff!

Riding the boat across Pine Island Sound from Cape Coral to Useppa was very daunting becaue there were many entire roofs submerged under the water. On one trip I was riding my client Rory's Donzi racing boat at

50 mph and he had a mixed drink in his hand and Pink Floyd playing LOUD and the lowerend of the motor hit one of those roofs snapping it completely off at the transom. Rory was sitting at the controls and slammed his face on the steering wheel. I and another guy were standing at the moment of impact. The other guy catapaulted over the bow and landed in the water but I instantly grabbed an upright and almost snatched both arms clear out of the sockets. We puttered back on a trolling motor.

Charlie spilled out of the sound and turned slightly to the east into the enormous Charlotte Harbor. Upon entering the open water it picked up a little speed and headed toward the city of Punta Gorda on the northside of the Peace River. There, it wreaked total destruction on everything at a maginitude never before seen. Yes, the damage to the barrier islands was immense but most of those homes were built recently and were able to sustain less damage because of it. Punta Gorda, though, was mostly older homes, some built back 50-60 years or more before people were concerned about things like building codes. In a way Charlie took the trash to the curb, really. The newer homes sustained the least amount of damage and the old stuff was, well, gone.

Our home was designed by me and a large part of it was built by me and the damage we received from Charlie was minimal. We lost our fence, about $7k, some screen panels on our pool enclosure, about $300 and some ventilated soffit panels, maybe $50. All in all we got lucky. We replaced the fence and used 6000# concrete in the posts, replaced all the screen panels and added 4 more cable braces, replaced the missing soffit panels and installed 1000 more nails that anchor them to the

2x6 subfascia and ran a continuous bead of silicone caulk around the whole house where the soffit panels intersect the J channel on the wall. Live and learn.

When I built my office/workshop 3 years ago here in Hoosierville the building inspector said it was easily the strongest building in the county, cause I designed and built it to my standard Florida specifications. But I don't have 200mph windows and there are trees all over the place and tornadoes frequent this area. You can't always escape mother nature when she's venting / ranting.

Reply to
creative1986

" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

I agree. The advice is probably based on the post-event observation that small framed spaces tend to hold up better than larger ones, but as your experience shows, whole framed structures can take off.

After a 1998 blow there was a pile of house roofs and shipping containers just offshore here for a while. No longer visible, but still a good fishing spot.

Also maybe different for earthquakes. Our earthquake in PNG was picked up

10 minutes before it happened by the family cat. He hissed, his fur stood on end, and he went and stood under a door head. We didn't understand the reason, but there was no shifting him - ferocious critter at the best of times. Not sure if dogs have the same facility - no one reported it anyway. After the shake the cat relaxed and wandered off, whereas the local dogs went on yelping.
Reply to
Martin Clark

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.