Workbench Design (revised) w/SketchUp

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Bill--
I like your design. Here's a bench with a very similar design I made a couple of years ago:
http://bullfire.net/Bench/WP_Bench.html
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Sorry, Bill, I didn't realize I already sent you this link on a previous thread. Please ignore.
Ed
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ed_h wrote:

Ed, Thank you for resending! Great looking bench! Is it as solid as it looks (any racking?)? What was the nature of the joinery that you used for the vertical trestles? Sharp side vise!!
Best Bill
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Bill wrote:

I'll be lucky if mine comes out half as well...
Best, Bill
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The bench is very solid and weighs a ton (not really). I have to drag it around occasionally, and no sign of racking.
Joinery on the legs to feet are double mortice and tenon. Stretchers are mortice & tenon. Cross pieces at the top of the legs are saddle joints. The trestles are set into recesses under the top and fastened with large screws in slots. Breadboard ends are traditional stopped tongue & groove (I guess you couls also call it a wide, short mortice & tenon).
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ed_h wrote:

Thank you! That sounds pretty close to the way Garrett Hack did it on his bench that I read about. Both of you folks had the advantage of having cut M&T joints before...I'll be practicing first!!! I ordered a DeWalt 2.25 Router (w/plunge and fixed base) this week to help out. I'll be looking up "saddle joint" in the next 5 minutes as that term is unfamiliar to me! Thank you for sharing these details with me.
Best, Bill
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Cross pieces at the top of the legs are saddle joints. The trestles are set into recesses under the top and fastened with large screws in slots.
If I understand, then you already described what you mean by "saddle joints" above.
It appears that Mr. Hack affixed a board on one of both sides of each trestle top and used screws, of course, to affix the top. It sounds like your "recesses" are more like shallow mortises. Both designs sound solid (and better than I would have designed on my own). Hopefully, I'll be able to build a bench that can pass the "nickel test". ; ) I intend to start "production" in less than 2 weeks.
During the last few years I've been studying woodworking, but this will be my first real woodworking project since HS, when I last had access to some "shop space". I should probably practice my M&T joinery on some twobyfours, huh?
Bill
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Bill--
In this context, this is what i meant by a saddle joint:
http://bullfire.net/Bench/saddle.JPG
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Bill--
In this context, this is what i meant by a saddle joint:
http://bullfire.net/Bench/saddle.JPG
Thank you, the picture is worth 1000 words. Mr. Hack used a double M&T joint. Your saddle joint looks easier to "fine tune" should the trestle tops need "leveling", should the wood warp for instance ; ) Thank you for the idea.
Bill
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On 4/21/2010 10:18 AM, Bill wrote:

An excellent joint, but one caveat you need to consider: this is one joint that you will want to "pin", as it does not resist racking forces as well as a mortise and tenon joint.
After glueup, simply drill a couple of holes through the joint and drive appropriately sized wooden dowels (with glue on them) through the joint. Depending upon the size, two will usually do.
With a "corner bridle joint", this will give you much more resistance to racking forces.
That said, don't let this dissuade you from using the joint, as it is indeed excellent for your application.
--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
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Swingman,
TYVM for your suggestions! Your comments about the joint and the racking forces make a lot of sense.
Bill

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"Swingman wrote: ,

After taking such care to get to this point, I might be surprised if one should merely screw the top to the top trestles. Of course there is about 20 linear inches on each top trestle available for screws!
Some options which allow for a removable top seem to be:
1) Screw the top trestles to the top 2) Screw the top trestles to the top and also "block them in" (add support around the top trestles by also screwing in wooden blocks around them) 3) Bolt the top trestles to the top (w/inset bolt) 4) Bolt the top trestles to the top (w/inset bolt) and bolt the support blocks! (no fooling around)
(2) is definitely an improvement over (1), right? (4) looks like a "maintenance upgrade", if ever required.
Bill
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I routed shallow pockets in the bottom of the table top to receive the tops of the trestles. The horizontal pieces at the top of the trestles had short slots milled in them for biggish screws to pass through and into the top. The slots allow for expansion and contraction of the top.
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wrote:

I routed shallow pockets in the bottom of the table top to receive the tops of the trestles. The horizontal pieces at the top of the trestles had short slots milled in them for biggish screws to pass through and into the top. The slots allow for expansion and contraction of the top.
The "routed pockets" and expansion slots are both good ideas! Your bench should give you plenty of great service!!
Bill
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On 4/21/2010 1:02 PM, Bill wrote:

What you do depends upon whether you need to take seasonal expansion of the top into account.
Just another of many options that you have:
Most of the time I use figure eight fasteners for attaching any tops to aprons, or trestle bases, because the top can be easily removed, and they do take seasonal expansion into account.
Might be different with your workbench, depending upon how much strength you feel you need if you are going to move it around.
I generally advise against using the tops of tables/furniture as a carrying handles if they're fastened with figure eight fasteners, but the more you use, the stronger it would be (say eight, two on each side of each trestle.
Although not a workbench, that's what I did with this trestle table, and that top weights in at at well over 100lbs:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table12.jpg
That said, my shop workbench top (not a traditional design but gets the same type use) is not even fastened to the under carriage except with key blocks, and it has never moved unless it was taken off on purpose for transport.
If you feel something like the figure eight fasteners will do the job for you, you do have to take care that they are aligned so that seasonal movement is indeed taken into account.
--
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I second Swingman's suggestion here. I used the approach (from the Klausz bench) of one large diameter short peg on the top of each trestle end, fit into shallow holes in the bottom of the top. The top is different from your average table top in that it has much greater mass, and is not going to move unless you very intentionally move it. The peg is enough to resist the lateral forces from planing, etc., which would otherwise make the top move.
Whatever you do, though, only one fixed-point attachment at each trestle (screw or peg). If you feel the need for a second attachment on each end (such as for moving by lifting from the top), make sure to allow for lateral movement at the second attachment point.
--
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On 4/21/2010 8:44 AM, ed_h wrote:

May be more commonly known as a "bridle joint", or, in this case, a "corner bridle joint".
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:02:37 -0700 (PDT), the infamous ed_h

Bravo, Ed.
-- "I think you very well may see a revolution in this country and it will not be a revolution to overthrow the government," he said. "It would be a revolution to restore government to its constitutional basis." --Rob Weaver on VoA, 4/19/10
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Very nice bench, and the drive by gloat was good ("The Burr Oak was felled, milled, and dried on our property.").
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