i need to organize things and i want to make a shallow cabinet for the hand
i thought that using a cleat would be the simplest wall mount to use
sometimes called a pinch cleat or a french cleat
but they are not earthquake ready and i could just blast a screw through
from the front through the cleat and into the wall but something about
that i just do not like
what other clever things have you done to fasten the cleats together
without driving a screw all the way through
i was thinking of making half-round grooves in each cleat and then once
the cabinet is hanging place a dowel into the full-round to marry them
maybe a square groove would be better
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 5:01:49 PM UTC-7, Electric Comet wrote:
In addition to the cleat, you could screw a block or board to the wall
above the cabinet, so the cabinet cannot be raised off the cleat.
If appearance doesn't matter, there's also steel rail solutions (Unistrut/Superstrut)
that will hold in any quake that doesn't break walls.
that would do too and is simple
i wanted something that i could attach and unattach without screws so if
i realize i want a different cabinet there i could just remove the dowel or
i am trying to organize a shop that has never been unorganized
i saw some of these solutions
one called z bar i think
but i am much too cheap to do that and i have plenty of wood so i will use
On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 8:01:49 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
Why would you have to "blast" the screw into the wall? It only needs to go into the wall cleat to secure it. Besides, you will already have holes in the wall from mounting the cleat, what's one more hole from the securing screw going to matter?
I guess the real question is this: What is the "something" about that method that you "just do not like"?
If you have room to slide the cabinet in from the side, use a "normal" cleat at the top and an "inverted" cleat at the bottom. Once slid into place, the cabinet won't go anywhere unless the room falls over.
it is sort of six of that and a half dozen of the other but my shop right now
is unorganized and i am trying to organize it but i will no doubt move the
tools around as i get to the workflow that i like
for those reasons i could have a lot of holes which is not a huge problem
but just would rather not
so i would like to place the cleats and just pull out a peg from each end
of the cleat to remove the cabinet from the wall
now that is an idea
this could allow a totally flush mount
if the room falls over than i probably will have other things on my mind
On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 7:09:45 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
I was kind of hoping that that would be your response.
You are concerned with putting too many holes in your walls, yet you like an idea that requires a minimum of 4 holes better than one that only requires 2.
imagine you have 4 shallow tool cabinets that are meant to be open most
now imagine you hang them with cleats at top and bottom as you proposed
i can move them around without any additional screw/unscrew for securing
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:44:19 AM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
Even though the double cleat was my idea, I don't mind poking holes (pun in
tended) in it.
Keep in mind that you will need open wall space to slide the cabinets on an
d off. Depending on your layout, you may need as much open wall space as ca
binet space. Or maybe just one cabinet's width space so you could slide all
of the cabinets off into that one open space and then slide them back on i
n a different order, i.e. multiple moves.
'Twere it me, I'd grab my screw gun, remove the single or maybe even 2 scre
ws and just lift the cabinet off the single cleat. Is it worth wasting the
wall space and/or having to move cabinets around more than actually necessa
ry just to avoid the use of a couple of screws?
In my case, I don't have a single inch of open wall space available, let al
one multiple cabinets width's worth.
i am in no hurry
since it is long term getting alternative ideas is important
maybe someone has a clever or novel approach
how did you hang your cabinets
did you hang them permanently or did you consider that you might move
or maybe you just have another workflow in your shop
some people like a rolling cart so they have everything at hand
Wall cabinets are fastened to the wall. I have no interest in moving them.
I have two 6' x 4' x 16" cabinets with interior and door shelves. The
shalves are moveable, cabinets are not.
I have a 6' x 2' x 37" table/cabinet. It has 12 drawers in which I keep
smallish hand tools...wrenches, saws, bits, screw drivers, chisels, planes,
etc. It is on casters so it can be moved. I have never done so in the last
Most of my stationary power tools are on wheels, the exceptions being the
RAS and cabinet saw. The only reason they are on wheels is so I can pull
them out from the wall a bit if the need arises.
I have two 4' x 1' x 37" high tables on casters. I use them for
routing/planing/sanding/assembling/finishing things and as stock carts to
hold boards near a tool. There are a tray shelves at the bottom full of
pipe clamps, F-clamps, hand screws, C-clamps, etc. They roll but not
easily. Someday I'll rebuild them with larger casters.
FWIW and IME you are obsessing about a very simple thing. Little cabinets
full of hand tools are not going to go flying off a French cleat, earthquake
French cleats are designed to make it easy to remove the cabinet from
the wall. If you screw it down to make it "earthquake proof", then you
have no need to complicate things with a french cleat, just screw the
thing to the wall, as is normal.
If you have an earthquake that raises the cabinet up enough to jump off
the cleat, you probably will be worrying about far more than that
cabinet, but I'm guessing, I live in earthquake free zone:-)
If it's not uncommon for earthquakes in your area to jump up and down
1 1/4" or so, one screw in the bottom is sufficient to make sure the
cabinet and wall jump in unison, then all your worries can be focused on
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:27:47 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
Standing up for EC, I'll offer this:
He wants to use cleats so that he can easily rearrange the cabinets as he
plays around with various organization ideas. He may start with a particular
arrangement this week but decide on a better one later on and then again on
another one a few months from now. In the meantime, Mr. Richter might pay a
visit and he wants to be able to welcome him into his shop safely.
EC is essentially looking for a temporary way to protect against the worst
case yet make it easy enough to rearrange the cabinets at various - and
unknown - points in the future.
As others have suggested, a single screw into a cleat should be enough to secure the cabinets yet allow for fairly easy movement.
FWIW, It is many times easier to mount a french cleat on the wall and
hang a cabinet on the cleat and add a single screw to secure it than to
hold the cabinet up against the wall and level and at the correct height
while adding multiple screws and hopefully into something solid.
It's simple to hold the cabinet to the wall, exactly where you want it
and screw it into studs. It's how kitchen cabinets are hung all over
the world. French cleats require screwing into something solid just as
attaching the cabinet directly.
The french cleat adds measurement difficulty if you want the cabinet an
exact distance from the ceiling, in that both the wall cleat and the
cabinet cleat must be exactly right, not to mention you can't hang the
cabinet closer to the ceiling than needed to lift the cabinet over the
cleat, assuming you don't have space to slide the cabinet sideways,
seldom the case. Also, you need to attach 3 extra boards, two for the
cleat and one for the spacer, if your cabinets have backs.
Standard cabinet hanging techniques are about as simple as it gets. On
a scale of 1 to 10 I'd put hanging normal kitchen cabinets as 1 and
using french cleats as 1.3.
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
Well, simple to say but to do is another matter. I am not a full time
kitchen remodeler but I do have a few under my belt, 10 IIRC so that
probably 80 or 90 cabinets.
And while you are correct, most kitchen cabinets are simply hung on the
wall with out French cleats, they are generally mounted on top of
temporary ledger boards to hold them in place while the tops of the
cabinets are attached with screws/bolts to the blocking boards between
the wall studs.
Not really, simple math and that calculation pretty much works for all
of the cabinets unless the tops are not all the same.
not to mention you can't hang the
Typically you don't mount the cabinet against the ceiling anyway, hardly
any ceiling is perfect and you don't want your cabinets to follow an
irregular ceiling. Leave a gap, 3/4 will be plenty and cover the
irregular width gap with a molding.
Now while I have never used french cleats to hang kitchen cabinets, up
to this point, I will strongly consider using them should I have another
remodel come my way.
I have built and installed a number of kitchens myself, the easiest part
was hanging the cabinets. I've also done a number of cabinets with
French cleats, and the measurements were more difficult, so if you have
trouble measuring for wall studs, you will have even more trouble
measuring for wall studs and french cleats.
If french cleats were simpler, then kitchens across the world would be
hung via french cleats.
In the words of my favorite cabinet maker, "Well, simple to say but to
do is another matter." :-)
There is a reason you have installed 10 kitchens and not once used
french cleats. It's the same reason no one else uses them in kitchens,
it's not easier and there is no reason to make it more complicated for
I suspect you won't use them next time either.
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
Typically you don't measure for wall studs. There should be blocking
behind between all of the studs. this is pretty much standard practice.
Either way wall studs are easily found with a stack of rare earth
magnets to locate sheet rock nails or with a good electronic stud finder.
Do you know that they are not?
The last kitchen job that was completely my kitchen job was 8~9 years
ago. I really had not thought of using french cleats up until that
point. The rest of the kitchens I was not the one in charge and I did
the work as instructed.
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