Why Is It That...?

[Tom Watson]

Keith Bohn doesn't post much here anymore.

Patrick Leach doesn't post much here anymore.

Patrick Olguin doesn't post much here anymore.

Walt Akers doesn't post much here anymore.

Sy Kaplan doesn't post much here anymore.

Phully doesn't post much here anymore.

Apeman doesn't post much here anymore.

Sylvan doesn't post much here anymore.

Mike Hide doesn't post much here anymore.

Nova doesn't post much here anymore.

Bob Schmall doesn't post much here anymore.

I wonder.

Is it time to join them.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[Rick M]

"Tom Watson" wrote [snip of the list of folks I ALWAYS read ... ]

I sure hope you continue to frequent the wreck Tom ... for what it's worth, your name should be at the top of the list (besides upsetting the alphabetical status quo, I happen to believe you are an exceptional writer).

I feel your pain, I really do. I've filled and emptied my plonk filter a number of times, and yet the same few names keep surfacing. Mind you, I don't get upset when someone that contributes to the WOODWORKING aspect of the newsgroup goes off-topic once in a while ... it's the ones that never make an on-topic comment that reach me. They reach me all the way to the plonk file ... quietly, without any announcement.

I used to delight in thread killing ... by pulling the conversation back on-topic. I've given that up, because I'm not sure I don't reside in a number of other's plonk files already! So be it.

When Stoutman commented on his tablesaw issues, I thought this is a chance for everyone to help him out. Subtract the wiseass comments and we're pretty much left with yours (to be fair, I did e-mail him with a list of suggestions, and since he's less than 30 miles away, we have the opportunity to get together to resolve this issue without all the drive-by comments).

Unfortunately, my job ... (make that my expensive hobby) has taken me out of the shop for far too long ... and I'm correcting both issues. One of those is to encourage WOODWORKING comments. I'm not going to fight the "off-topic, all the time" clowns ... I just ignore them. It only takes a few minutes to read the newsgroup now, since I filter on a very conservative measure (on-topic counts for 15 points, off-topic counts for -1 ... drop below zero and you're gone). It's not scientific ... I just sort by name, look at the subject(s) commented on, and move on.

I know you have a lot of other things to do with your time than have me tell you how I deal with the twits ... but I certainly don't want to see you head to the weeds ... lurking, reading, but never adding your lifetime of experience to the mix. I contribute when I can ... but electronics seldom comes into play in WOODWORKING.

I'm going to get back to clearing all the work-related crap out of my woodshop, move that monster Shopbot from the garage to the basement (that's where the shop is), and start building all the things I've wanted, but never quite found the time to do. Now, if I can only find someone willing to trade me hardwood for all these lead-acid batteries ... pound-for-pound ... I'll be set for a lifetime of woodworking.

Hang in there Tom.

My highest regards,

Rick

[Joe Barta]

I've heard this in every group I've ever participated in. What's happening is that people move on and things change. Keith, or Tom or Dick or Harry get bored of posting and they do something else for a while... maybe forever. It's perfectly normal.

And another newsgroup has not gone to shit because of spam and off-topic discussion. Disappear from this group for a couple years, and when you come back, you'll see a couple old names, many new names, plenty of discussion, some of it off-topic, and a few people complaining that the group is going to shit.

Some things never change ;-)

Joe Barta

[nailshooter41]

It seems to be an ebb and flow thing with all NGs, as JB pointed out. I have participated at one time or another for many years under different names, changing them as I change ISPs. I may go away for a year or so, then drift back over to see what is happening, then go away if the loud mouthed bullies are on the playground. They have a lot more time, frustration, and issues to work through than a simple woodworking group can help them with. They obviously don't spend much time woodworking.

I leave when the hobby guys get so nasty with each other it is ridiculous. And nasty over the silliest things, too. For the longest time, the fight was on about balancing change on your big machines to help determine your accuracy, shaving with your chisels, and when to brad and biscuit or to just "man up" and dowel and clamp.

It has never, ever, escaped my attention in this group that the threads that get the most posts by far and away are the negative ones. With all the other groups and forums I am and have been involved with, not one is a spot on the ass of this group for jumping in on a negative thread. It was just absolutely hilarious to me and a few of my comrades from time to time. Just mentioning Home Depot was good for LITERALLY a few hundred posts if it was in a negative vein. Also good for a huge response was to LIKE or HATE Norm... and what the hell is he anyway? Craftsman, woodworker or carpenter?

OT threads *always* draw the best though, and the folks that have been here a few months know what subjects are the most noteworthy to induce profanity, threats, massive plonkage ("I plonked him FIRST!"), petty sniping and hurt feelings.

Almost as good, but not quite, are stories of "sticking it to the man" or "getting screwed by the man". Lots of "oorah" when the little guy gets one over "the man" or "the system", and plenty of empathizing when another fellow woodworking citizen is struck down by an unfair situation ("I feel your pain" posts).

After a while, it is tiring. Then the tide goes back out, and many go with it. I suspect that many still lurk, and that they use this group for its highest and best use: archives.

No library holds what this group does for current and past information on such a wide array of subjects concerning woodworking. SOMEONE here has done just about anything you can imagine, and likewise has found, used, or has what you are looking for. For me, that is why I drift back over the months, and then on occasion try to add something of value if I think it is pertinent.

Robert

[skeezics]

yesterday and whilst scroling down the authors list i noticed yours was missing recently. i thought to myself well another one gone!!! sad realy cause i enjoy your posts [ even the OT ones ] seems lately if you ask a woodworking question you see 3 - 7 answers on topic and 35

-50 offtopic and several more that are just plain mean. lately i have started killfiling threads instead of individuals. it clears some of the clutter. i may join the rest oneday but not quite yet and i hope you stick around too.

skeez

[DonkeyHody]

Tom, What's with all this "Goodbye" stuff? You can't just walk out any time you feel like it. You have a moral obligation to stay. "For every person who fails to stand up and fight for his rights, the next person must stand a little taller and fight a little harder. If too many people sit on their rights, justice may be lost forever." - Unknown

DonkeyHody "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

[Dave Balderstone]

Some of us learn to filter and kill-file, even applying them to the "old-timers" when they go over the edge, as several have in the last while.

If you take a bit of time to filter out the crap, the wreck is still a pleasant, helpful place despite efforts of a few to change that.

[Dave Balderstone]

Tom and others, like JOAT, go through this public wringing of hands and threatening to leave every so often. Then they lurk for a few months wondering if people miss them, and come back when they realize their absence is noted but not bemoaned.

[Joe Barta]

I disagree that any undesirable posts are due to anyone "making an effort" to make a group unpleasant. Just like the little kid that comes in muddy didn't "make an effort" to get dirty. It just happens, that's life. Even if this public forum were limited to those of only the highest character by a moderator of even higher character, there would still be plenty of mud.

Personally, I like the freedom and variety and I'm happy to take the good with the "bad".

Joe Barta

[2001.9.11.9.45]

I've been around the net many years since the 70's and around the NG's since

1. But around 00, the squirrels were let loose. Now you post and for every helpful or intelligent response, you get 100 of utter nonsense, as if they are wildly posting blindly the most stupid shit I've ever read. It's not fun anymore and certainly not worth your caliber or your time. It's not just this NG, but almost all. as if we have a generation of feeble minded angry possessive little kids have taken over and they KNOW EVERYTHING! No self esteem. I still have all my fans like Mike, Leon, Rich Mark & Jose They'd be lost without me. LOL

Now you can only post what they want or else.................. Well I'm still here and will be here long after, it used to be to help, now to keep them all informed of the stupidity of the War in Iraq!

I go out to the Amish way every so often and inner in Philly now and then.

You take care Tom!

[J T]

Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 8:58pm (EST-1) dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca (Dave=A0Balderstone) doth mumble: Tom and others, like JOAT, go through this public wringing of hands and threatening to leave every so often. Then they lurk for a few months wondering if people miss them, and come back when they realize their absence is noted but not bemoaned.

I certainly didn't make such a large deal about it as Tom. And, I didn't lurk either, I just flat stayed away, period. And, they're probably as many moan about me being here, as moan about me being gone. LOL I don't know if I'll ever leave completely, but may wind down a bit, got other things coming up, that're gaining priority. Plus, I think this may the year the older son is actually going to work on the Luv. Actually, I think that may only be because I'm starting to hear noises from the GMC that sound like they may cost more than the truck is worth. to fix - and he does NOT want to play driver for me. LMAO

JOAT If you can't say anything nice about someone, you must be talking about Hilary Clinton.

[J T]

Thu, Jan 19, 2006, 3:54am (EST+5) [e-mail] (Joe=A0Barta) doth mumble: I disagree that any undesirable posts are due to anyone "making an effort" to make a group unpleasant.

Dream on. Then spend some time checking the archives. You'll change your mind - especially if you're ever picked to be the target..

you can't say anything nice about someone, you must be talking about Hilary Clinton.

[nailshooter41]

I didn't really think about this, but it is certainly true. I can think of at least of couple that have announced "goodbye, cruel world" to the group, and posted a litany of reasons that they felt under appreciated, put upon, and have left. Some farewell posts are so maudlin and full of thoughtful irony that they could almost bring a tear to the eyes of a more gentle reader. But then, like taxes, they are back again before you really ever missed them.

All newsgroups and forums evolve, change, and so do the people in it. Even in our little woodturning club, we all find other things to do for a few meetings (we only meet once a month!) and then we run into someone that is still going and we rediscover the club again.

And as with *any* group, how far do you go without the grind of the regular questions popping up?

On the woodturning group, it is:

- I am just starting out... which lathe should I buy?

- I just inherited an old lathe, and it is rusty, but painted blue with wood legs. Can anyone help me rebuild it?

- Why do woodturning tools cost so much?

- Where do you find wood to turn?

- How much should I charge for my work?

- Anyone use a variable speed lathe?

- What sandpaper do you use on end grain?

- How do you sharpen your bowl gouge?

A few months away from that sure makes it easier to help out, and not be too curt when answering if you are so inclined. Think of all the damn table saw questions posted here...

I posted like mad to to the woodturning group a few years ago ('97?) when I rediscovered woodturning, and then I lost interest as I would rather be turning than argueing, or endlessly debating the finest points of turning techniques. Some of the most frequent posters assumed ownership of the group, and they became kind of snotty little crowd to be in, and actually treated a lot of the newbies like hell. None of that old group is there now, but the most current group is pretty good, polite, even keeled and fun to exchange with. So now I post away again. When it changes (or when the weather changes here so I can go spin up some wood!) I will find something else to do.

Robert

[Lew Hodgett]

If you don't like what happens on this list, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Otherwise, sit down, shut up, enjoy the ride, and quit bitch'en because it is a friggin bore.

Lew

[nailshooter41]

Yawn.... here we go.

And who was bitching? Kick ass, Lew. Kick ass.

Robert

[Dave Balderstone]

And as with *any* group, nobody is under any obligation to reply to any particular post.

If the "regular" questions are a grind, skip 'em.

djb

[John Grossbohlin]

Dave,

After 20 years or so of participating in on-line discussions it gets easier to do those things... When I first started it was very difficult. ;~)

Guess we've been around a while, or at least I have. ;~)

John

[Joe Barta]

Dreaming? It's all just a dream?

"Check" for what? What exactly would I search for to find examples of someone making an effort to make a newsgroup unpleasant?

You'll change your mind

I admit, it happens... if I'm presented with a better idea.

Actually, on thinking about it, I suppose you could find instances of some bored skinhead type popping into alt.blackisbeautiful and making an effort to be a nuisance. If that's what you're talking about then I can dig it.

Ah, target... now that's a whole different story. We were talking about someone generically making an effort to make a newsgroup unpleasant. Now you're talking about some loon making it his temporary mission in life to give YOU grief. Telling me that oranges are not orange because apples are red doesn't sway me, sorry.

Now that's cute. That woman annoys the piss out of me.

[Lew Hodgett]

This was intennded to be a general comment addressed to the cry babies on the list and in no way was it intended to include nailshooter41.

Lew

[nailshooter41]

In that case, I completely agree with you.

Robert