Whiteside router bits--does size really matter?

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Leon (in 9Z4Cf.16013$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net) said:
| || For spiral bits, buy aluminum cutting end mills. Work great, are || often cheaper and have a size tolerence of +0 -.001. | | Not to mention that they stay sharper and hold up better than | carbide tipped. I was plunge cutting 3/8" wide, 3/8" deep and 1/5" | long slots through 3/8" thick Ipe typically 200 at a time. After | 400 cuts the carbide bits were toast. After 600 the end mill bits | still looked and cut like brand new compared to the carbide bit. I | was using 4 flute HSS end mill bits.
I've also had good experiences using end mills. I recently got a batch of standard length 3-flute center cutting carbide mills from KBC Tools (http://www.kbctools.com catalog #1-330-008 and #1-330-016) and really like 'em.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:36:16 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Morris,
Looking at that catalog, I found the parts by name on page 167. Where is the first part of the part number (1-330)?
And, what do you do for a collet for the 1/8-inch cutter (and for all of the cutters that aren't 1/4 or 1/2 inch dia.)?
TIA.
--
Art


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Size is a bit of a problem. Shank sizes in solid carbide tend to be the same size as the cut diameter. I use three diameters for on size cutting (1/4", 3/8" 1/2"). For other sizes, standard router bits are about the only choice. Even though, many times you can use the endmills for the rough cut and standard router bits to finish.

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CW (in y1fCf.2670$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net) said:
| Size is a bit of a problem. Shank sizes in solid carbide tend to be | the same size as the cut diameter. I use three diameters for on | size cutting (1/4", 3/8" 1/2"). For other sizes, standard router | bits are about the only choice. Even though, many times you can use | the endmills for the rough cut and standard router bits to finish. |
| and use an industrial spindle that uses ER-25 collets. These are available in sizes to span from 1/16" to 5/8". I bought KBC's #7-171-295 so that I could use end mills and twist drill bits of any size in that range.
Most routers come with 1/4" and 1/2" collets; and I understand that 3/8" collets are available for at least some routers from the manufacturers. I've heard that there are 1/8" adapters available; but I don't know offhand who makes/sells them.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:07:58 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Morris,
I asked KBC for their catalog. Today, I received a sale flyer, just ~50 pages. I hope they follow up with the full-line catalog; I'm absolutely DYING to know what is on pages 978-982!! 8-)
--
Art


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Art Greenberg wrote:

You can always look it up on their website...
Chris
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CNC Milling machines, starting around $15K up to $40K plus.
Devon -- Remove capital letters from the email address.
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On 3 Feb 2006 09:53:15 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@Dgmail.Ecom wrote:

Thanks Devon. I couldn't be sure if the print catalog Morris had is the same as the current one on the website.
Makes sense that Morris would drool over that stuff. Despite readily recognizing the coolness of those machines, I seem to be immune from the effects Morris warned of. Maybe its the price range. <g>
--
Art


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Art Greenberg (in CWNEf.11241$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net) said:
| On 3 Feb 2006 09:53:15 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@Dgmail.Ecom wrote: || CNC Milling machines, starting around $15K up to $40K plus. || || Devon | | Thanks Devon. I couldn't be sure if the print catalog Morris had is | the same as the current one on the website. | | Makes sense that Morris would drool over that stuff. Despite readily | recognizing the coolness of those machines, I seem to be immune | from the effects Morris warned of. Maybe its the price range. <g>
The lure of that kind of stuff is that they so incredibly shorten the distance between "imagine" and "use".
I don't know how many times I've said - and heard other people say - "I wish I had a tool that could/would ..." With that stuff, if you can imagine it, draw it with your CAD package, and figure out a way to keep your workpiece from squirming around while it's beeing shaped, you can have your new tool less than a day later.
The price range puts 'em out of my reach, too; but as the prices have come down, my interest has gone up (and up and up). It's not so much the coolness of the machines, it's the coolness of the machines that can be made with the machines... :-)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:56:14 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Indeed. But making furniture is just a hobby for me (and a pretty new one at that). So machines like that are fairly permanantly out of my reach. And I'm not likely to want to contract out custom machining for cost reasons as well.
If I were ever so lucky as to fall into a sufficient fortune, I'd probably set up a machine shop around such a machine (or maybe two). I've had just a taste of working with metals on a vertical mill and a lathe, and I'd love to be able to combine that with woodworking to make furniture.
--
Art


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Err... that's one of the benefits of metalwork. There's a collet for every size! And you really shouldn't use an end mill in a chuck. You might be able to find a sleeve adapter to fit it into your collet.
Art Greenberg wrote:

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Leon wrote:

I work mainly with cherry, which is to say "I burn mainly with cherry." Think I would have any problems with burning on a 4-fluter? I would probably have problems lining up a 3-fluter, and I so far haven't found a 2-fluter.
Also, what kind of RPM should I run something like that at? (I believe my router goes 8,000 to 25,000).
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wood snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (in snipped-for-privacy@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com) said:
| Leon wrote:
|| ||| For spiral bits, buy aluminum cutting end mills. Work great, are ||| often cheaper and have a size tolerence of +0 -.001. || || || Not to mention that they stay sharper and hold up better than || carbide tipped. I was plunge cutting 3/8" wide, 3/8" deep and || 1/5" long slots through 3/8" thick Ipe typically 200 at a time. || After 400 cuts the carbide bits were toast. After 600 the end || mill bits still looked and cut like brand new compared to the || carbide bit. I was using 4 flute HSS end mill bits. | | | I work mainly with cherry, which is to say "I burn mainly with | cherry." Think I would have any problems with burning on a | 4-fluter? I would probably have problems lining up a 3-fluter, and | I so far haven't found a 2-fluter. | | Also, what kind of RPM should I run something like that at? (I | believe my router goes 8,000 to 25,000).
I've been running my 3-flute bits at 15,000 - 16,000 RPM and feeding at 90 inch/minute (1-1/2 inch/second). Burning is as much controlled by feed rate as by rotation speed.
With a hand-held router (I'm cutting with CNC router which allows me to control both feed and speed) you'll benefit from practicing on scrap to get a feel for feeding at a rate that doesn't burn. Remember that it's the chips - much more than the airflow - that carry away the heat.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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I never had any more problems with burning in Ipe with the end mill bit than I did with a 2 flute carbide cutter. Take in mind also that my bit was in a router table mounted router. I would hold the pieces of Ipe over the spinning bit and plunge the wood down over the bit to make the initial hole. I did use a jointer style push block to push the wood down on the spinning bit. The blocks of wood that I was cutting the slots in were about 3.5" long and 2" wide. There should be no alignment problems but as always you whould make a test cut in scrap for insurance.

Again, test for best performance but I ran mine wide open well over 20,000 rpm.
Look here for these bits and also keep in mind that like most solid carbide spiral bits these end mill bits shanks are the same size as the cutting diameter. You may need an collet adapter for the bit to chuck properly. Still with that in mind I found this to be a far cheaper route to take. http://www.mcmaster.com/index.asp Search on End Mill . There are probably lots of cheaper places. Typically I found these bits to be in the $10-$15 range in 3/8" cutting diameter.
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:02:48 -0800, wood_newbie wrote:

The same as for the equivalent-sized router bit.
At the same feedrate, the four flute tool has 1/2 the chip load of the two flute tool, making for twice as many cuts per lineal inch, too. If burning still occurs, boost your feedrate to take a bigger chip with each pass of a cutting edge. The chip carries much of the heat away from the cut (says a guy who has worked in a hail of blue chips coming from milling machines and lathes).
Bill
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I have the same problem with another brand of bit... same shank same cutter size and slightly undersized and I paid top dollar for it. This has REALLY annoyed me because I have a project that requires a precision fit in order to work. I think quality router bits should have a higher degree of precision. if it were from Harbor Freight, I could understand it.

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