Not a problem.
My response was not an absolute answer, rather was an indication of probable results.
There are too many variables to give a definitive answer with out actual test data which is why my post about using recording KWH meter.
Lew
You could suggest your employer install a motion detecting switch (very inexpensve) in all neccesary rooms. We have them all around the shop and office. This would allow for every room in your building to be dark when no activity is going on. You could perhaps sell it to them as a savings of even more $$ on power as well as not slowing all the employees down turning on and off lights. Forget about the times the employees realize they forgot to shut the light and have to double back a few feet to hit the switch.
One of my pet peeves, not directly related to this post, is when there is resistance to increases in efficiency and moreover conservation. Everyone conveniently ignores the first "R" in the three "R's" and that is Reduce. Simple fact, global warming or not we all benefit from increased efficiency and conservation. We get cars that go farther for less $$, save money on fuel and power bills, often times get longer product life, we do more with less which has been the capitalist mantra for making money for all the ages. However now when conservation is touted as beneficial, or god forbid mandated, the same capitalists argue endlessly that we should be able to waste if we so choose as no one should be able to infringe on our individual rights (ACLU? zoikes!). I am a self employeed owner and operator of two small business and I try to bleed all the savings I can out of "Reduce" and efficiency and welcome any and all advancements in the area.
Mark
Yes, you are missing something. That method does not account for other loads in the building.
Reducing energy consumption doesn't always reduce costs you know. Every time you switch a fluorescent light on you shorten its life a bit. Switching them on and off every five minutes is not cost effective, even if it does reduce your electric bill, because you end up buying more bulbs. A long time ago the conventional wisdom was that if it's going to be off for less than half an hour then leave it on, but I don't know how the numbers work out today.
Now, you're probably going to show me some link about start up power consumption being negligible, but start up power consumption is not the issue, the reduction in bulb life is.
The problem with the motion switches is that when some one walks into the room the light coming on wakes you up.
I did this at my house.
On Jan 20, 12:45=A0pm, "J. Clarke" wrote: Reducing energy consumption doesn't always reduce costs you know.
Agreed, thats why most good motion switches are adjustable delay. Most data that I have read recently is calling out 15 minutes as the cutoff for shutting off flourescent lights. Incandescents and Halogens should be shutoff at all times theyre not needed. The switch waits the 15 minutes, then shuts off (or the time you set). If someone re-enters the room in that 15 minutes the cycle starts over again. Either way, its still reduction and efficiency through automation. Calculating an accurate payback for the switches and their installation is very situation specific but as in the originial posts, its no big deal to start with the rooms/machines that idle the most, monitor usage through monthly bills, and keep moving forward. Most operations have a fairly consistant ambient consumption so any significant reductions would show up readily.
Mark
The only problem with that is if other conditions vary between billing cycles (temperature, lighting needs, etc.). Those other conditions can skew the results and lead to very erroneous conclusions. Since the savings on this may be very subtle, those confounding conditions may swamp out the real results.
Punch presses have large fly wheels that require significant amounts of energy to get them up to speed. Once at speed they require very little power to keep them running. It's quite common for these presses to be left running during breaks and lunch as a means of reducing the electrical power that is required to run them. In fact, the fly wheels of the larger ones are likely to still be turning after being powered off and left for a half hour period. Starting one and bringing it up to speed requires much more power than running it at speed for several hours. Long ago this fact was realized, and this is why they are left running as a common practice.
Charley
I can see that but in a factory production setting I doubt that lighting would be different and there may be no air conditioning but if you take ajasent billing periods you may not have much deviation at all on temperature.
If those numbers are real/accurate, it would indicate that the machinery in question is actually pretty small stuff and thus an insignificant part of the overal power usage. That small a KWH usage there wont' be much difference period. So, compared to the overall usage, whatever machines those are would be insignificantly small enough to be negligible.
Twayne
That's not very complex, whatever the two "simple" statements mean. That is by far the most accurate way to asses it, including comparing the numbers to last year's same period to see if usage is remaining constant for the time of year involved.
Twayne
That is how I would do it. If you are worried about other loads in the building, do it everyday for a week. That should factor out the unusual loads (statistically speaking). This would get you pretty close.
Montyhp
What numbers are you talking about? All I see is the time he goes to lunch, reads the meter and returns from lunch.
Yup. Once I actually witnessed two PhD engineers sparring this way; eventually one of them (a professor doing expensive consulting for the company) finally threw up his hands and said, practically shouting, "Aww don't introduce another variable!"
But it's fun to chat, anyway. I hope the OP finds what he needs.
- Owen -
Robatoy wrote in news:6eeea95d-d429-4021-bb82- snipped-for-privacy@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Last time I did that for the light on the basement stairs, the motion detector blew out within a week. Cheap BORG shit, I know, but now I and everyone else have to reach behind the basement door to turn the light on and off.
J. Clarke:
Please explain what "other loads" will be mis-accounted when doing the comparison readings.
Lumpy
You were the Tidy Bowl Guy? Yes. I'm cleaning your bathroom bowl.
Change the experiment parameters every other day. That mitigates the seasonal things like HVAC. Simple enough on our residential meters here in AZ.
Lumpy
You were the "OPERATION" game voice? Yes. Take out wrenched ankle.
Since I have not seen the facility I have no idea. Since you have not seen it you have no idea either.
J. Clarke:
Lump:
J. Clarke:
So you think I'm missing something that you have no idea about?
Power consumption is power consumption. All other factors being equal, measure the consumption with the stuff shut down, vs the stuff running. The "other loads" are constant if you do the experiment correctly.
Lumpy
You were on CHiPs? Did you wear those sexy tight pants and high boots like Erik Estrada? No. Swimtrunks.
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