Plumbing: Magnaclean fitting?

Hello.
I have just bought this bit of kit http://www.magnaclean.co.uk /
and according to the instructions at http://www.magnaclean.co.uk/installation.shtml
I can take a feed off the header tank. I even rang them to confirm this, they seemed less knowledgeable than I did!
I have two plastic tanks in the loft and one cyclinder, the largest tank has two 22mm pipes coming out of the bottom, one to the bottom of the cylinder and the other (with a stopcock****) runs through the loft, down into the bathroom and presumably into the return of the potterton suprima downstairs. Is this the pipe where I am supposed to fit the magnaclean, and can it be anywhere in that line? best place for me would be about 20 ft from the tank! The small tank in the loft uses 15mm pipe from the bottom and then feeds into various pipes, one of which goes into the centre/middle section of the hot water cylinder so I assume I can ignore this? Do I need to get this sorted quickly now I have a new rad to prevent future rust etc, or can I have a few weeks off ? thnx guys and happy christmas to you all.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:42:14 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@snotmail.com (Paul) wrote:

The idea is to prevent corrosion from forming by use of inhibitors!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(Paul) wrote:

A Magnaclean is not. It collects solid particles in the water and takes out harmful iron particles via a strong magnet preventing sludge.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@snotmail.com says...

Think about that for a second before realising that it's bollocks. The only way this device stands a chance of working is if it's in part of the system that gets a full flow of water. The diagram shows it fitted after the pump or before the boiler.

The filter won't stop rust, it will just remove rust from the flow. If you're lucky that might reduce sludge blockage but don't hold your breath. You need to prevent oxidation in the first place - adding chemicals to the system works for most people.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
says...

How many top up the inhibitor every 4 years? The magnaclean does grab the iron particle and other solids, which can bake onto a the inside of a heat exchanger.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No it doesn't. It feed all the cold taps, except the kitchen.

No.
Where you fit it, is on the return pipe to the boiler. The boiler has a flow, the hotter pipe and a return, the cooler pipe. The RETURN pipe. You will have to drain down the system to fit. Best to drain the CH system partially. Pour desludger, from Wickes, and refill. Vent rads and pump. leave for two weeks while running hot. Drain down and flush through. About three fills and drains. Fit the Magnaclean and refill with inhibitor from Wickes. After one month isolate the Magnaclean and clean the filter, again after 6 months and then every year.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Paul wrote:

I don't read it like that! It has to be after the pump and before the boiler so it's on the pumped side of the system. Between the boiler and the pump is unpumped and the pressure is maintained by the head of water in the header tank.
Guy -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd snipped-for-privacy@crossflight.co.uk
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Guy Dawson wrote:

That's misleading. You have a loop with a pump in it - all of the water in the loop is being moved by the pump. The head of water does produce a little pressure - in both the flow and return (so it does not cause any movement in itself).
The reason that you must not fit this filter between the boiler and the vent pipe is that it would introduce a possible blockage in the presure release path and so could (possibly) lead to the boiler exploding (if the pump were also to fail, and the thermal cut-out not operate).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Paul wrote:

Ooooh, I want one! Does the group endorse this as a legit product?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:40:24 -0000, "Steve Walker"

If one is generous and assume that it works as detailed on the web site - reasonable based on magenetic attraction plus some form of mechanical swirling - then it is still fixing a problem in the wrong way.
Ask yourself the question why the oxide sludge particles are present in the first place. The answer is that it is due to the corrosion of components containing iron (e.g. radiators) in the system. That takes place when there is a ready supply of oxygen and when there is not any corrosion inhibitor in the system.
The former happens typically when an openvented system has not been installed and commissioned properly and is either pumping over from the vent pipe (air dissolves due to agitation of the water) or from sucking down directly. This is usually easily corrected by pump adjustment, simple replumbing or in the most difficult cases, an air separator like a Myson Aerjec (cost about 10).
The latter happens because of laziness and short-sightedness. It may cost 15-20 every couple of years to buy some decent inhibitor and add it, but the cost of replacing all the radiators because they corroded will usually run into many hundreds.
Once sludge does occur, it progressively blocks the system, reduces radiator outputs, causes boiler bumping and kettling and generally causes deterioration of the system. In short, you don't want it happening in the first place.
If there is sludge in a system, then it needs to be cleaned out properly. This can be done on a DIY basis by removing radiators, taking them outside and flushing with a pressure washer, by renting a power flushing machine or by paying a charlatan such as BG to come and do it for you for the princely sum of 500-800.
After that, the reason for sludge build up should be checked and fixed (e.g. air introduction).
It is prudent for there to be a filter strainer on the return path into a boiler to make sure that the heat exchanger is kept free of debris. In fact some vendors require it as a warranty condition. However, one can buy a very good one from somewhere like BES for about 5. www.bes.ltd.uk part 7533. A couple of isolating valves to be able to empty it and you are done.
So basically, for a cost of about 30 including inhibitor, you can have a clean, well performing and protected system where, if the inhibitor is checked and replaced, will last for decades.
I just checked my filter (annual job) and there were about a dozen or so grains of particulate in there. Quick rinse and that's it. Test and add inhibitor and done.
The Magnawotsit costs 90 and catches whatever particulate matter is coming through - it says. First of all, this assumes that the material is moving around. Heavy sludge might not be. Secondly, why is the sludge there in the first place? Thirdly, even if it does catch it, if the system is suffering corrosion, this is equivalent to taking aspirins as a cancer cure - it addresses the problem in the wrong place and in the wrong way. To do a proper job, you would still have to fix the plumbing and add inhibitor. Then it would have gone away.
While I like gadgets, and this one has more credibility than an electronic water conditioner (which has little to none), this strikes me as an unnecessary product. It should sell well to people who buy Lottery tickets.
--

.andy


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:36:45 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Agreed. Better to have a clean system and keep it that way with inhibitor.
(Snip analysis which IMHO is spot on).

This product was shown to us at one of the several training schools I have had to go to this year to (attempt to) keep up with the red tape. In these contexts the iconoclast is provoked in me.
I pointed out that in the more severe cases of corrosion (usually when there's been pumping over for many years) the oxide is Brown Iron-II Oxide. Which is to the best of my knowledge not magnetic.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Wasn't bad, but Matt gave a lousy conclusion.

A well installed system, well flushed and inhibitor replaced every 4 years will last a long time and not need fro filters. BUT!! Alpha now have cyclone filters on all their boiler to catch solids in the system. It is a problem and one maker has acted to combat it. BUT!!! How many replace inhibitor "every" 4 years? Er, er, er?. A filter which catches solids and an iron magnet to eliminate sludge is well worth it in the long run. Through the systems life it may have a number of owners, and few will replace inhibitor at the required period.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Matt, spoken like true ill-informed amateur. Well dpne.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:10:49 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"

I thought that you might have gone on a holiday to Eyebyeza for Christmas. Didn't you sell enough copper cylinders to win the prize? I suppose the puffy anorak with the Alpha logo will at least keep you warm in your flat.
--

.andy


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Such Christmas spirit..nice one Ebenezer.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:33:58 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"

Happy Christmas, you old reprobate :-)
--

.andy


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Merry Christmas to all.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Good idea. What about the boiler, how would you clean that out, say a potterton suprima 70 ?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.