Tuning Up A Century Old Dresser - With Roller Guides

[DerbyDad03]

We snagged a curved front dresser from my Grandmother's house last weekend. It was probably my Great-Grandmother's, but there's no way to know at this point. My soon-to-graduate daughter wants it for wherever she ends up living next year. Hopefully not with us! ;-)

I'm pretty sure it's at least 100 years old, maybe 150. I say that because of the Burrow's Brothers label denoting the Roller Guide Line. A Google search seems to indicate that this system was used between the late 1800's and early 1900's.

There's a pair of rollers on the back of each drawer box and rollers on the side rails of the dresser's frame. Two of the internal rollers are missing so I'll have to make new ones. I found one of the domed head nails used for the missing rollers in a drawer, but the other one is long gone.

The drawer knobs were a little loose, so I removed the "screws" (nope!) planning to add some glue and toothpicks to tighten them back up. It turns out that the "screws" are actually bolts that thread into metal inserts in the knobs. The inserts have a pair of points that dig into the drawer front to prevent them from turning. Well, that's the theory anyway.

The problem is that once the knobs get loose, they spin and the points carve a circular groove in the drawer front leaving nothing for the points to hold onto. Some of the inserts are also stripped, so I have a some work to do on the knobs.

The biggest problem with the dresser is that the bottoms of the long drawers sag a bit (actually, a lot) so I may need to add some "beams" to flatten them out. (suggestions welcome)

I think that they are solid wood (?) because I don't see any plies. Did they use plywood for drawer bottoms back then?

In any case, the insides of the drawers are finished and I don't want to replace the bottoms. Again, suggestions for flattening them would be most welcome.

[dadiOH]

Is this picture of the front of the drawer? If so, it appears to have a molded edge that extends slightly beyond the front; is that correct? Is the bottom flush to the bottom of the drawer front; i.e., nor set into a groove?

Is the bottom nailed to the borrom edge of the back?

Groove or on top of a batten? How is it attached to the sides? In either case, how much do the sides extend below the bottom?

[Sonny]

Can you easily remove the drawer bottoms and flip them over? If so, then all you'll need to do is (sand smooth? and) apply a finish to the "new" surface.

Sonny

[John McCoy]

"dadiOH" wrote in news:nedda0$ner$ [e-mail]:

This picture:

appears to show the bottom nailed in 3 places at the back.

Plywood was invented before 1900, but I don't think it came into common use until after WW1.

You may be able to take care of the sag by screwing (rather than nailing) the bottom to the back in several places.

John

[dpb]

On 04/09/2016 8:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

...

As J McCoy notes, they're nailed with brads; this is common construction so the bottom can be replaced if necessary; if all four sides are captured in groove then the only choice is to try to disassemble the drawer itself...anyway, that aside, I'd recommend to _not_ do major structural modifications; two suggestions.

1) use a _tiny_ drop of epoxy in _only_ the nail holes and sufficiently small it won't glob up and glue the bottom to the rear drawer bottom and re-nail. I've had success if the drawers aren't subsequently drastically overloaded in that the epoxy will hold the nail but you've not ruined any chance of removing them for repair/replacement of the bottom later by gluing the bottom itself...

2) there are only three (or maybe there's a fourth towards the left; unclear from picture for certain) brads shown; whether that's all there were or that's all there are left, having lost a couple of others, the obvious fix in the vein of the original is to add a couple new ones in fresh wood locations. I'd probably add a second near the existing and then insert new between present locations.

Btw, the knob kickers can usually be fixed by a strategic insert of a small patch inserted in the necessary location to provide a new "bite" surface. I didn't look at all the pictures but have had a number of these in the past when the SHMBO ran a small antiques booth in TN and worked over a lot of pieces for her...that was a "trick" taught me by Lonnie Bird in one of his seminars many, many years ago, now... :)

[dpb]

On 04/10/2016 9:57 AM, dpb wrote: ...

...

_IF_ it were to be considered necessary to add some mechanical fix, one alternative that is mostly reversible I've used is to add a small quarter-round on the inside, fastened with brads but no glue. Going at

90-deg angle to bottom and back gives quite a lot of strength with very small brad/pin and leaves minimal residual damage if removed...and drawer is still repairable going forward.

Start throwing new glue in places where it isn't precludes any further repair that can't happen 'cuz can't safely remove the glue plus if one does want to try to retain what value there is in the piece on any future antiques market, those kinds of repairs will knock it out of the collectible class immediately into just old furniture...

[hubops]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

I recently reinforced sagging drawer bottoms - on a modern dresser - from the inside of the drawers ! I had some large < 1 1/2 inch > hardwood dowel that I ripped in half - the halves were surprisingly stiff & strong - placed them inside & screwed in from the drawer back ; toe-nail-screwed from inside the drawer into the drawer front ; and up through the drawer bottom. The round-top of the dowel looked ok inside the drawer, too ... The crappy drawer construction made it difficult to fix any other way

- - you might have better options with a solid antique. John T.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [e-mail] ---

[Jack]

The inserts in the knobs look like standard modern day Tee-nuts. Don't know when they were invented, but the two pin ones are older than the 4 pin nuts. At any rate, you shouldn't need the pins at all to stop spinning. Current day knobs just tighten down and don't spin. If these don't tighten down enough to stop spinning, I'd think the bolt is too long, or the knob is spinning around the tee-nut. If spinning around the tee-nut some epoxy should fix it.

The picture indicates the bottom is either nailed to the bottom, or fitted in groves on 3 sides, and open/nailed to the back, so removal should be easy. I would remove the bottom, flip it over and screw it wherever nails were used previously to attach it.

[DerbyDad03]

Having used my share of Tee-nuts, I can say with confidence that these are similar but a far cry from "standard modern day Tee-nuts". The pins on a Tee-nut point in the same direction as the threaded shaft and are used to hold the tee-nut in the material that the tee-nut is in.

These inserts have the points pointed in the opposite direction so that they stick into the material that the object with the insert is attached to.

Maybe the bolt stretched over the past 100+ years? (kidding!)

Actually, on the ones that won't tighten down, it appears that the inserts are stripped. I used the standard glue and toothpick method and I was able to crank down on the bolts with substantial force. We'll see how long they hold.

I wish removal was easy. I tried to remove one of the bottoms and it certainly doesn't slide right out. The other one seems looser but I haven't removed the nails yet to see if it jammed like the other one.

In any case, the interiors of the bottoms (and of the entire drawer) are finished as shown here:

There is also damage (grooves) on the bottoms where they have dragged on the metal tabs used as stops. The grooves are too deep to be sanded away and besides, I'm sure I would never be able to match the bottom finish to the side finish *and* make it look 100+ years old.

[DerbyDad03]

Securing the back of the bottom to the back of the box may take care of the sag from left to right, but the bottoms have actually taken on kind of bowl shape.

Flattening the back by securing to the box hardly removes any of the center sag.

For now I used the standard glue and toothpick methods and I was able to crank the bolts down really tight.

[DerbyDad03]

That's a consideration. Thanks

[DerbyDad03]

It's a close up of the previous picture, which is the back of the drawer showing the gap and (barely) the 3 nails "holding" the back of the bottom into the back panel of the drawer box.

Here's the full back:

Now zoom in to the left of the center nail:

Yes, with 3 nails as seen in the picture if the full back.

Grooves in the sides and front. The groves extend about 1/2" below the bottom panel. The bottom panel is now kind of bowl shaped, sagging left to right as well as front to back.

[dpb]

On 04/10/2016 12:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

Well, you didn't provide sufficient info to know about it, either... :)

The question becomes one of how much you're willing to sacrifice from original; another mentioned one option similar to that which I outlined above which isn't _too_ obtrusive.

No dimensions given; depending on just how wide they are, I've had some success in the past if they are solid material in dampening and weighting as dry to reform them but that's a hit 'n miss proposition. The one thing of it is that it basically is a no-cost/no-foul thing to try as long as there's not veneer to lift.

Other than that, you can try simply the "invert and weight" (and wait) technique.

[Electric Comet]

good to keep nice stuff in the family

was going to put drawer glides on some old drawers that just slide on bare wood now

but i rubbed wax on the both parts and the drawers move so easy they almost fly all the way out until you get used them sliding so easy

[Sonny]

I suppose your last option may be to remove the panel, moisten the raw (bot tom) side for a day or so, then allow to dry in a "clamped" reverse curved position (over correct the curve, a bit), to correct the bowing... and hope that does the trick. I would suspect the wood is air dried, but sometimes old "cured" air dried wood acts as if it's kiln dried and is not always as bendable/reshapeable as new/newer air dried wood. I don't think you would damage the panel if you gave this a try.

Sonny

[Sonny]

ottom) side for a day or so, then allow to dry in a "clamped" reverse curve d position (over correct the curve, a bit), to correct the bowing... and ho pe that does the trick. I would suspect the wood is air dried, but sometim es old "cured" air dried wood acts as if it's kiln dried and is not always as bendable/reshapeable as new/newer air dried wood. I don't think you wou ld damage the panel if you gave this a try.

If you do give this a try, then, as you're clamping the panel, listen close ly for any small, minute sounds of cracking. Tiny cracking sounds indicate it's not bending properly, i.e., not bending as typical, as readily as, ai r dried lumber does.... or as steam bent lumber does. Even trying to steam bend old cured air dried lumber doesn't always work.... you can hear small cracking sounds, when trying to steam bend old cured air dried lumber. It doesn't steam bend properly, similarly as when trying to steam bend kiln d ried lumber.

The bow in your panel doesn't appear to be too significant. You shouldn't have to recurve, over correct, the bowing too much, so a wet-bending optio n may work.

Sonny

[dadiOH]

Simplest fix is 3 screws through the bottom into the back. Put one in the center first, then one more on each side halfway between center and side. That should fix the sag in both directions; if not, slack off the last two, add another one (two more total) between them and center, then tighten the loosened one.

[dadiOH]

Addendum: That will remove the belly in both directions as long as you assure that the bottom is fully inserted into the front groove while you do the screws.

[DerbyDad03]

You are right, I didn't post any dimensions, so here they are:

The interior of the drawers are 36" wide, 16 1/4" deep at the outer edges, 18 1/4" deep at the center.

I clamped the bottom of the drawers to the back of box in three spots, completely closing the gap along the back. The front and sides of the bottoms are fully seated in the grooves of the box. I placed a 36" straight edge across the bottom of the interior of the drawers and measured the gap between the straight edge and the bottom of the drawer at the center of the bottom.

3/8" on one drawer, 1/2" on the other. I'm guessing that those are considerable gaps, probably too much for the dampening and weighting technique, correct?

[DerbyDad03]

Ah, if it were only that simple. To repeat what I just posted in response to dpb's post...

I clamped the bottom of the drawers to the back of box in three spots, completely closing the gap along the back. The front and sides of the bottoms are fully seated in the grooves of the box. I placed a 36" straight edge across the bottom of the interior of the drawers and measured the gap between the straight edge and the bottom of the drawer at the center of the bottom.

3/8" on one drawer, 1/2" on the other.