Trouble setting up new table saw

Page 5 of 5  


a gnat's ass is a unit of measurement approximately one order of magnitude smaller than that offered by the most accurate instrument in your shop... which in your case makes it pretty damn thin.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sep 30, 2:29 am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

No luck with NIST ;-) Well, I can measure to within a millionth of an inch (with some uncertainty) so that would be pretty darn small indeed!
Yes, I know that "gnat's ass" is slang. People use it to describe something that is extremely small and insignificant. It's hyperbole (an obvious and intentional exaggeration). People use hyperbole to illustrate something that is ridiculous (causing or worthy of ridicule or derision; absurd; preposterous; laughable). To characterize Dan's desire to align his saw as the persuit of "thousandths of a gnat's ass" just emphasizes the ridiculous nature of the task. It's hyperbole on top of hyperbole.
I don't think that 0.016" of misalignment is absurd, preposterous, laughable, or worthy of ridicule. It's hard for me to understand such a characterization as anything other than derogatory (tending to lessen the merit or reputation of a person or thing; disparaging; depreciatory). But, that's just me. Others may not feel the same way. It depends on their point of view and the effects that it has on the individual. Nobody likes to have their profession characterized in such a way.
I can understand jokes and how people poke fun at eachother in a light hearted way. Sometimes it's not appreciated. Maybe it strikes a chord or pushes a button that is particularly sensitive. Maybe it even has tangible consequences that can affect a person's livelihood. The proper thing to do is make a private appeal for the "humor" to cease. When presented with such an appeal, most of us will recognize the unintended consequences and back off. Some may even feel compelled to offer an apology. The really rare individual might even make the apology public so that everyone would understand that no harm was intended. This is how people manage misunderstandings in polite society.
A person who cannot recognize any potential for offense, denies the appeal and places the blame on the offended with further jabs ("you're obtuse", "wrong headed", "have no sense of humor", etc.) is being particularly callous (insensitive; indifferent; unsympathetic). If they step up the public activity with deliberately embarrassing jabs then they shouldn't be too surpirsed when the offended begins to take overt actions to remedy the situation (limit the damage). If they are lucky, they will receive yet another private appeal with very strong and direct language with exact specifics and blunt descriptions of the offending behavior, it's consequences, and how it is being interpreted. To deny the appeal at this level and counter with maliciously embarrassing public jabs truely places one in the category of "asshole". At this point, it is clear that no reason or appeal can be used to remedy the situation. It is, by definition, beyond all reason.
Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Unless you're the gnat.
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

Bullshit, all around ... what folks need to know is that the real "mocking"/"ranting and raving" and "antagonism" is your vile, unsolicited e-mail backed up on my hard drive.
it's real, it's provable, and it's disturbing.
It's also damn sad.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This just isn't the direction you want to go Karl. Don't take my word for it, please ask someone else. Frank, for example, can tell you exactly why this isn't a good idea.
Please re-consider the jokes, jabs, and fun that you have been having at my expense and think about choosing a different course of action. It would be better for everyone all around.
Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

I agree, Ed ... all things considered, it would certainly be much better for _you_. AAMOF, I hereby suggest (not threaten as you attempt to do above) that _you_ drop the whole thing.
You're simply worth no further consideration on my part. I fully expect you'll continue along the same line, but EOT, as far as my participation.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not a threat, just a warning. Kind of like the label on ladders that says "Do not stand at or above this step". It's just not safe or stable. There could be unforseen consequences that everyone would regret.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have read through this entire thread and come away with this conclusion: You guys have way, WAY too much time on your hands and have no shame about how far you will push an issue. You sound like an angry 90 year old couple. It's a wonder any one of you make a living because it appears that you spend most of your time typing and thinking up "the perfect reply". Ed; you really don't have to reply to every negative comment. It makes you look bad. Swingman; stop picking on someone just because you know he will argue with you. He makes a good product and you know it. Find something more constructive to do rather than tormenting Ed.
Chuck
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"FrozenNorth" wrote

While I agree with the later half, I vehemently disagree with the first premise above
Contrary to what Ed has decided as my take on his product is, it is an _excellent_ product, something every serious woodworker will find of great value and, as such, has always deserved as much publicity amongst the woodworking community as possible.
To suggest otherwise would be a loss to the woodworking community hereabouts.
Despite our differences of opinion, this is simple fact ... I've said the same to Ed, on posts here on the wRec, and on my website.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"FrozenNorth" wrote in message \

Unfortunately, we almost all take a turn in that barrell at some point or other. :)

Same to you.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

All of this sound very ominous to me.
If I was a business owner, I'd be very careful of how I come across to my potential customers. Being argumentative, cantankerous, or anything like that can cost customers or distributors.
But what do I know? I'm just an uninterested observer.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Thank you so very much.

Recognizing the futility of continuing, I'll ignore all below, let those who are following this thread decide for themself. Hopefully you will also grant each of them the right to believe whatever they like. But in this case you have specifically accused me of "questioning Dan's ability to make friends". I did nothing of the kind. I don't know where you got that but I think since it is a specific accusation that you should either apologise or offer corroborating evidence. Please cut and paste the information from any post where I said anything directly related to that accusation or any other personal derogatory remarks regarding the OP.
Frank

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sounds good to me.

Sorry Frank, it looks like I made a mistake and owe you an apology. Here's the message that I was thinking of:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/msg/8492fa1ee2e6859b
I had you confused with another Frank and it was an injustice to attribute that statement to you. I hope you can forgive me. And, I hope that anybody else who might have been misled by my mistake will see this and not allow my blunder to change their opinion of you.
There have also been a number of occasions where I interpreted your statements as more antagonistic than they may have been intended because you and swingman were arguing the same point of view ("ignore the problem and just make sawdust"). In the absence of swingman's derogatory remarks I may not have taken them the same way. So, I apologize for this as well.
I'm still wondering if you think Dan was wasting his time to align his saw. Is it better for him to live with the problem (rework all his bevel cuts) or invest the time up front to eliminate the problem once and for all?
Thanks, Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Certainly, apology accepted.

I didn't find those comments offensive, but opinions must vary, depending on one's point of view.

It's not a waste of time for him if he wants alignment more precise than what he had. My position is that the rework that he anticpates is not what I would have expected with those original readings. He said he experienced a bad fit while using the saw prior to realigning it. I never questioned that nor commented on it, but was surprised by it. I'm glad you were able to help him. Sounds like he had a simple case of a cabinet top plate plane or a table boss plane that was not perfectly (and there is no such thing except randomly) parallel to the table top. But I would bet that it was within both Powermatics specifications and the natural statistical process capability range for the process. And, as originally stated, I expect that the feature reading (45) was also.
Frank

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Two things can happen when you have bad blade alignment. The work can pinch between the fence and the blade resulting in a burned edge. Or, the work can wander away from the fence during the cut resulting in an inaccurate cut. When using a miter gauge, the work has a tendency to slide to one side or the other. It all depends on which direction the misalignment takes. If you prevent the wandering with clamps (miter gauge) or feather boards (fence) you end up with a burned edge (and a wider kerf if you follow all the way through).
The same things happen when the blade is tilted. However, the wandering or pinching isn't just horizontal, it will also have a vertical component. Most people notice the horizontal wandering but don't catch the vertical.

There are wide specs and large variability. I don't know what the PM specs are but I suspect that you are right. I've had a lot of customers complain about interactions with woodworking machinery manufacturers. Most of these companies just don't think that their customers will ever notice or care. And, since the market is so price competitive, they're not to keen on making an investment in this area. I've talked with Manufacturing Engineers at Delta (about 12 years ago). They have jigs like mine that they use internally for audit checks (sold a Sr. and associated accessories to their facility in Pittsburgh) but it's not 100% inspection. They just want to make sure that their process is still in control.
Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The individuals in Pittsburgh had nothing to do with the quality inspection of my product. They were dealing with far eastern imports. I did do 100% inspection of the features in questions in addition to various statistical methods. Please don't blend the two together if you don't know what you are talking about. That (confusion of the source) has already pretty much destroyed the quality image of the brand. That's all I have to say about that.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You are right, I really don't know anything about what Delta does in Pittsburgh. I just know what they told me. I thought it was a bit strange that they only needed one Aligner to support their entire production line. They explained that the Aligner would only be used for occasional audits. I tried to convince them that every service center needed one. Didn't work. :-(
Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.