TiteBond Responce from Headquarters

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Sums up my point better than I have. Thanks, Tim, for putting it so clearly.
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I guess that glue will be called Special Super Super Super Duper Extra Water Proof, Now with Kryptonite.
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:56:57 GMT, "Leon"

Is that from the appropriate ANSI standard?
Seriously, the designations of Waterproof and Water-Resistant come from specific standards which do not call for the ability to hold under continuous immersion. My quick search doesn't reveal a standard for a truly waterproof glue or a term for such. Maybe the ANSI people decided that there wasn't really any such thing and didn't create a standard for it.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Tim Douglass wrote:

Remember that the ANSI standard in question was prepared in conjunction with another organization that specialized in standardization of plywood.
For truly waterproof adhesives for some purpose other than making plywood I believe you have to go to the military specifications, and don't just assume because something is mil-spec that it's good for a particular purpose--there's a mil-spec for anything that the military buys--you have to read the spec to see what it covers. Glue that is compliant with the military specification for "defense beans" wouldn't be much good as an adhesive for example.

--
--John
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:35:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"

In that case I would expect to find a standard for a fully waterproof glue, since the plywood industry makes a marine grade plywood that is intended for immersed use. Perhaps "marine grade" is the designation I'm looking for.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Tim Douglass wrote:

There are several organizations that publish standards for plywood. ANSI/HPVA deals with hardwood plywood, veneers, and flooring. That is the source of the standard that was used. APA deals with plywood sheathing, flooring, etc. Marine plywood made in the US is made to an APA standard, not an ANSI/HPVA standard. There are also Federal standards for plywood purchased by the government. Most imported marine ply is made to a British standard which I understand calls for a phenol-formaldehyde adhesive.
If the ANSI/HPVA standard doesn't meet your expectations you need to take the matter up with them.
Regardless, the loading applied to the plies of a plywood during use is different from the loading applied when gluing furniture together, and so an adhesive that holds up in that use may not hold up in another.

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Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 6:21pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net (DaveHinz) puts out: The bigger question, I think, is this - if Titebond is saying that Wood magazine was using it wrong to get the bad results (right? <snip>
Well, all in all, I'm thinkg Wood magazine WAS using it wrong. And, no, still haven't read the article.
You gonna build a boat that's gonna be left in the water for long periods of time, and not use an appropriate adhesive? That's what it sounds like Wood magazine was doing. You're experienced enough to build a boat, you're gonna be sharp enough to follow recommendations in the plans on glue. I doubt people makng boat plans are gonna recommend anything but epoxy, rescorcinal, etc., particularly if the boat it apt to be left in the water for awhile. HOWEVER, any protective coating over the glue, paint, epoxy, etc., which is usual on a boat, would also give different test results - which I think Wood magazine should also have included. Since the Titebond label aready says not for prolonged submersion, or below the waterline on boats, the test was pointless, in the long run, except as a way to fill magazine space, or to kill some time.
Now, if they were to make a few boats, all to the same pattern, nothing fancy, just knock together in a day or two type, say three for each type of adhesive. One, no paint, or other protection. One, just paint. One, paint and/or epoxy and fibreglass. Then test them for a year, trailer, car-top, or in the back of a pickup, to the water, in the water for a few hours, then back. But, a few times leave them i the water for two, three days straight. That I would call a realistic type of test. They could give a monthly update, that'd give some useful information, fill magazine space, and kill time for these people. Hell, even a couple of weeks might give some useful results.
JOAT
We've got a lot of experience of not having any experience. - Nanny Ogg
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You gonna build a boat that's gonna be left in the water for long periods of time, and not use an appropriate adhesive?
So buying a glue that is labeled WATER PROOF is not an appropriate adhesive? Exactly what label whould we be looking for???
Since the Titebond label aready says not for prolonged submersion, or below the waterline on boats,
The label FRONT LABEL does NOT say that at all. It simply says WATER PROOF with absolutely no reference to lead you to believe that it has stipulations.
The FRONT label is suppose to indicate what you are truly buying.
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Correction ,
The Front label is suppose to "indicate" or "point to" what you are truly buying. Otherwise all the stores should turn the merchandise backwards so that you can see what you are really getting. Why should the front label be different from the back label or not refer to the back label.
It really is in the best interest of the consumer and the manufacturer to be up front with claims of what the product will or will not do. If there is a possibility that the label could mislead, note that stipulation on the label making the claim.
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Right. How about this: "Fizz Beer" on the front, but on the back: "Fizz is actually cat urine. Not to be used as beer."

Or change the words to "Water resistant" or "More water resistant". The word "proof" implies an absolute - this won't break, it won't burn, it won't dissolve in water, etc. If it's just pretty good in water, then it's resistant. If it's actively going to disintergrate in water, call it "water absorbant" or "removable with water" and make it a feature.
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I think that reflects the true problem with the labeling.
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Amen !! That is what Leon has been saying all along.
wrote:

truly
so
label be

to be

is a

label
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Well put. <G>
Barry
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wrote:

truly
so
label be

It wouldn't bother me any. If it doesn't say "Guiness" on the front, I don't care what the back says. ;-)
todd
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:42:56 GMT, "Leon"

if you're building a boat you go to the marine supply to buy glue. what you will find there is epoxy.
if you're building cabinets and furniture you go to the lumberyard or the hardware store. what you will find there is yellow glue.
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:37:35 -0700, Village Idiot snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote:

LOL! Do you actually do any woodworking, or just hang out in usenet groups making an ass of yourself.
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making an

I think bridger has adequate wood working credentials.
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He doesn't know shit about glue.
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WayneKelly blares:

And you are...what kind of expert?
Charlie Self "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others." Ambrose Bierce
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On 14 Jul 2004 01:02:23 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Shit disturber Charlie, expert shit disturber.;-) Tis good to see you are still around.
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