summary for hf clamps

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On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:

OK! The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.
Thanks for the suggestion Derby!
I still think that would be a deal killer for future Jet clamps but a solution for the pair that I do have.
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On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

It's nice to be able to give back. ;-)
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On 11/5/2015 10:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Old dogs can learn new tricks. ;~) I have know about doing what you suggested but never put 2+2 2gether. ;~)
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Sounds like another business for you. ;-)
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On 11/5/2015 7:28 PM, krw wrote:

Maybe soooo. LOL Oddly most every one that I talk to, that also have Jets, have not noticed the problem. Then again I do test the load ratings of my clamps.
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On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:

[snip]

If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)
Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of ¼" ply, glued a 3/4" piece of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is "that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.
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On 11/5/2015 9:20 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

I wonder if that would be strong enough to go through the plastic on the clamp and hold the wood pad.
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On 11/5/2015 12:28 PM, Leon wrote:

I seriously doubt it. Not enough drawing power. As I said it wasn't ideal but it worked for me. Think: just enough to hold the square of plywood in place while tightening the clamp. It was very easy to knock loose but for my purposes it was entirely adequate.
If I understand where you're going with my tip, I would think that a rare earth magnet, properly inlet/recessed to the pad and held by a touch of silicone would probably do the trick, "penetrating" the plastic and attracting to the metal behind it.
Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or vertically to a metal surface.
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On 11/5/2015 1:22 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

That would be the plan.

My first introduction to those magnets were when I was still in the automotive business, 20 plus years ago. I was working for an AC/Delco wholesale distributor. There was a particular part that came in a small box about 1.5 x1.5 x1.5 inches. You could not pick the small box up off of the steel bin with out the box opening and coming apart. You had to slide the box to the edge of the shelf to overcome the pull of the magnet. The part was a small wiper motor part. IIRC it had 4, 3/8" long by 2mm diameter magnets evenly spaced around a round piece. The magnets looked like wooden pencil leads. There could have been a dozen of those parts in the tiny box.
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On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

o

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My first introduction to rare earth magnets was when I was building Soap Box Derby cars.
No, I didn't hide them in the front end for extra pull out of the starting ramp. ;-)
http://www.ohio.com/news/local/soap-box-derby-marks-40th-anniversary-of-fam ous-cheating-scandal-1.415481
We used them to hold down the hatch of the Masters cars. With a pair of round rare earth magnets epoxied to both sides of the hatch up near the driver's head, the hatch stayed down on the bumpiest of tracks or even if we turned the car upside down, yet allowed for easy opening by either the driver or the handler. The hatch is hinged right above the #35 and extends back almost to the label on the side of the helmet.
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-13993 45975500_zps65263f4d.jpg
Some builders used Velcro straps or metal latches that the driver had to engage/disengage from inside car. The rare earth magnets did their thing with no user intervention required. While accidents were rare, I'd seen enough that I wanted to allow for easy opening of the hatch either from the inside or the outside just in case.
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On 11/6/2015 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Snip

Very cool car! some how I was picturing an orange crate with wheels. LOL Great work!
I used them on the model car display for my son many years ago. The door on the front of the cabinet sets on the bottom ledge. Other than that there are no hinges are latches. It is held in place by rare earth magnets. You slide the door to one side or the other to over come the pull of the magnets on the small screws below the surface on the back side of the door stiles.
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On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:33:23 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Thanks. My son won the World Championship in Akron with that car when he was 13. That was back when you bought the kit from Akron but could still make your own internal parts, modify the shape of the body, etc.
As people like me got more and more sophisticated regarding the mods, it got to a point where only those teams doing extensive modifications were winning. That caused the Masters division to get smaller and smaller, until it was on the brink of extinction.
They eventually outlawed all but the most basic modifications and outlawed homemade parts. It is now only the driver and the tuning of the car that determines the outcome. Both of those factors are huge, but not near as much fun as building your own axle mounts, steering systems, etc.
As an example, compare the shape of today's Masters car vs. my son's.
http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.416582.1374985320 !/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_500/derby28cut-17.jpg
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-1399345975500_zps65263f4d.jpg
They were both built from the same kit, but the modern car is basically a fiberglass shell screwed to the floorboard. My son's car is the same fiberglass shell screwed to the same floorboard but then rounded to be more aerodynamic and wrapped in 3 layers of fiberglass cloth and epoxy to stiffen the body. We reduced the size of the car to so close to the minimum girth that the blue vinyl racing stripe was added just to make sure we passed the girth measurement in Akron.
The internal parts were almost completely home made. For example, the kit comes with a rear axle mount that isn't much more than a piece of angle iron and couple of bolts. Bolt the angle iron to the floorboard, then bolt the axle to angle iron.
In contrast, this is the rear axle mounting system that we made:
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-2663-1399345879852_zpsf3c61506.jpg
Ah well, those were the days.
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:29:02 -0800 (PST)

i always thought that any racing sport should have an unlimited class competition
sailing car racing etc
maybe just have some very basic criteria like has to have at least 2 wheels or must have a sail and a hull i thought drag racing with funny cars and dragsters were unlimited but maybe i misremember
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On 11/6/2015 2:53 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

I think street racing is the only unregulated racing, other than breaking the law.
Maybe street racing in a hybrid or "Smart for 2" car would be legal. ;~) I don't think you can be ticked for speeding if you are not actually speeding
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On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 3:53:20 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

In essence, the All American Soap Box Derby does have an "unlimited class".
It's known as the Ultimate Speed Program. It was instituted for those teams that wanted to continue to build homemade cars, but it's not for the faint of heart. I know one team that spent over $100K testing and building a car. The team was led by a guy who owns a company that makes bob sleds for a number of Olympic teams, so he had the facilities, the engineers and the labor to build a winning car.
Do a Google image search for "soap box ultimate speed" for some cool images of Ultimate Speed cars.
There's a picture about 4 rows down of a driver lying flat on her back. She is wearing prism glasses so that she can look through a small window at the front of the car. Once the hatch is closed, the car is completely smooth along the top.
We modified a Masters division car for my daughter to drive in the Ultimate race. The only team we beat was a team that took a Thule car top ski carrier and added some wheels. (2nd row down on the image search, the last last I looked) We didn't expect to do very well, but it got us one more year of building and racing, so it was worth it.
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 13:36:05 -0800 (PST)

interesting maybe unlimited does not always make sense
even with the millions they spend on america's cup boats they still have to build them with constraints
maybe where they are already spending millions in the top class an unlimited class would make more sense hydrofoil sailboats might be interesting to see racing
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:53:18 -0800, Electric Comet

An unlimited sailing class doesn't make a lot of sense. You really have to have a length class to make it a race.

Again, there is a difference between "street" cars and open-wheel cars, dragsters, etc.

...and a big-assed engine?

There is an "unlimited" class but I don't believe that means there are no rules. I don't believe turbine engines are allowed.

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As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety on any available course.

Pretty much all forms of car racing require exactly 4 wheels, and they have to be on the 4 corners of the car (this rule being because someone built a car with 3 wheels on one side, and 1 on the other).

No, drag racing hasn't had an unlimited class since the 50's (or maybe early 60's). The only unlimited class I can think of would be LSR at Bonneville.
John
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"John McCoy" wrote:
As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin

---------------------------------------------------------- Cost doesn't seem to be a problem for L Ellison or Bill Koch when they won the America's Cup in their respective years.
OTOH, neither one of them were going to lose.
Whatever it took.
Lew
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On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 3:53:55 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:

"Cost" was one of the 2 main reasons the Soap Box Derby Masters division almost became extinct. Having the expertise to build a highly customized car was the other. The thing is, you really can't have one without the other.
Building a highly customized car was not cheap, nor were all of the weekend trips to other cities to race. Weekend rallies were used for 2 things: seat time for your driver and testing of different tune-ups, weight distributions, etc.
It was no coincidence that the families that we saw at rallies weekend after weekend were the same families that qualified to race in the World Championship races in Akron, year after year.
The problem was, those of us with highly customized cars (and high spend rates) were the ones winning all the races. Eventually, the other families stopped showing up and many families never even bothered getting into the Masters division. Their kids would race in the 2 lower divisions and then move on to other activities.
There was a few years when the 6 driver minimum at the weekend rallies couldn't be met. Instead of not racing, 1 or 2 fake names were placed on the grids so the other kids could race. Akron made believe that they didn't know what was going on for a while but eventually had no choice but to eliminate the customizations. It worked. It took a few years, but the Masters Division, while still the smallest division, is thriving now.
It still takes some expertise to build a good Masters car and it still cost more to build a good Masters car when compared to the lower divisions, but it's back to being within reach of almost all families that want to move up.
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