Silly Question about Jigs - --

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I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters' Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding- dongs that hostess should rename their product.
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Mule-Tracks
Two for the board and one for the nail.
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Quite true and I would most appreciate it if you would clip to show who actually wrote this.

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<snip>

Both Webster's and the OED (much more helpful in this as in most things) attribute the use of either jig or jigaboo as a derogatory racial slang word to the early half of the 20th century. I used the Webster's online version. It seems obvious to me that the term came from 19th/20th century white preoccupation with black dancing forms, "jig" being a common word for certain dance forms. I suspect that quickly, owing to broader cultural forces, the term took on a derogatory tone.
The ethnic slang is not a "misappropriation", at least not in the way that historical linguists view semantics: that's precisely how many words have acquired their meanings--in just the way you imagine unimaginable ("ding-dong"). Negro and gay immediately come to mind. If "ding-dong" were to become a slur I would bet money that Hostess would rename.
I sympathize if you think that the names for foods (or whatever) should be straightforward, but that's not how words have, historically, acquired meaning. For food specifically, check out Louisville author Martha Barnette's book, "Ladyfingers and Nun's Tummies" for an interesting look at cuisine etymologies. I'm careful to note that you say "should", which indicates your favor of prescriptive definitions--to which I too am partial--but at some point you have to allow that many if not most words acquire meanings indepent of prescriptive reasoning.
H.
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As noted previously:
From http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: (3)jig Function: noun Etymology: short for jigaboo black person Date: 1927
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I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....
I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.
If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...
Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed, H

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So any word that can be rearranged to mean a racial term should not be used. Who comes up with this idiocy?

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One of my closest friends is an older black man. It's been said that this group is the most sensitive because they have lived through a very deameaning time and were the primary targets.
Knowing I work with wood and have often used the term "jig" in his presence. He sees the term for the context that it was delivered and takes no offense. Of course, he can only speak for himself and I agree with the person that said he could use the term "fixture" just as easy if it will spare feelings. While I think that political correctness can go to far, we all have to decide which side of the mountain to die on and this just isn't a show stopper for me.
Don

brief
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Hi CW,
I'm not sure what you mean by "rearranged" so I can't speak to that.
I'm in love with Norma Loquendi (pace Safire) and historical linguistics, though, so my interest in the many different ways that words acquire and change meanings has its practical uses.
I despise political correctness, which I *think* is what you're referring to. My point speaks to a simple "do unto others..." approach. That, and the fact that I grew up with minorities as friends, has taught me not to pretend a knowledge of what should or should not make someone else offended, until I understand them sufficiently.
I'm not, BTW arguing for the abolition of the word jig, as you'll note from my original post. I was just explaining why another WW might have made the point he did with a knowing glance.
H

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On 13 Dec 2003, CW spake unto rec.woodworking:

    I was at the local Agway last Sunday, and noticed that the birdseed used in thistle feeders is now known as Nyjer seed. Used to be Niger seed. I doubt that the complaints came from the chickadees.
    The titmice have their own issues to deal with.
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Chris wrote:

I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure where it came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back then Japan was part of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase but merely an acknowledgement of origin.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

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You must consider that given the original meaning of "Orient" as "here the sun rises" in contrast to "Occident" (where it sets) from a japanese point of view America would be "the Orient" while Asia would be the Occident....
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Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means "eastern."
I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction of the sunrise" or something like that.
I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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No, no, this really is a good change, as Juergen tried to point out. The basis for the change is geographic, not political: it's not a "political correctness" issue in other words.
Orient is Latin for the present active participle of orior ("to rise"), which came to mean even in Roman times "The East". That geographic definition worked well for as long as Westerners communicated pretty much only with themselves. If we wish to include the East in our global communications now, as we do, then we can't really refer to Asians with a word meaning "Easterners"--which doesn't make sense to them. Unless, of course, you don't mind being referred to as a South American by Canadians....
H.

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| | Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
Basic difference: a fixture holds/guides the stock; a jig holds/guides the tool.
A fixture is a device used to hold stock in place while you work on it. A vise, by this definition, is a sort of universal fixture. Assignment #1, first week of class: design a fixture for a brake disc. Classical solution: first square the stock, then use a generic square fixture to hold the stock while you drill the radial hole pattern, then make a fixture with the same hole pattern and bolt the stock to it while you machine the profile (grooves/holes, circular outline, etc.). And yes, this is metalworking, not woodworking, but the definition ought still to apply.
A jig may be a fixture in that to do its job it must also secure the workpiece. But the primary role of the jig is to guide the tool, whether or not it also secures the stock. In the modern manufacturing world where you can have CNC machinery the notion of a jig is somewhat outdated. You just tell the tool where to go, and how fast, and it happens. In our world, where we have generalized hand-controlled tools, jigs take the form of pocket-hole devices, router templates, guide rails, etc. that constrain the motion of the tool to the path we wish it to follow.
A pocket-hole jig is an example of a jig that doesn't also need to be a fixture. You fasten the jig to the workpiece and it guides the tool, but the stock can be held any way necessary or comfortable. Some dovetail jigs also function as fixtures because they hold the stock in place (since you'll have both hands on the router) as well as guide the router through a profile.
"Fixture" would be the proper term associated with holding stock for use in a table saw. Many CNC systems also work by moving the stock, so "fixturing" need not be interpreted as "holding the workpiece stationary" but rather by holding the workpiece firm in a certain coordinate system of the tool. If a tool works by moving a platform -- with workpiece attached -- along a path relative to a stationary cutting bit, then a "fixture" would ensure that the workpiece does not move relative to the platform.
--Jay
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My book said basically the same thing, only a hell of a lot less windley.
<gd&r>
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Thank you all for the information - I really hadn't heard the use of the word "fixture" before but then I am a newbie and haven't worked in a production shop.
Again a geniune thanks Michael
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So a "sharpening jig" would really be a "sharpening fixture", since it holds the stock (i.e. the blade to be sharpened) and not the tool (the sharpening stone)?
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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http://miva3.synergydns.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code 2606&Category_Code=tools-term-multi
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This sounds to me like one of those freaking irritating know it all type of people who feel they MUST correct everyone all the time so everyone else will talk like they do. Their way is correct, everyone else is wrong. These idiots really gripe my ass ya know? Its not like the creep didn't know what you were talking about, he just had to correct you anyway. Its some sort of compulsive thing I guess. Jig, fixture who cares? I would have known fully well what you were speaking of if I had been the other guy, therefore no correction from me would have been necessary at all.
Jim

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| | Jig, fixture who cares?
I really don't, prior post nothwithstanding. None of my mechanical engineering and machinist colleagues care. They all use "jig" and "fixture" interchangeably ("jig" mostly).
I know the difference, but I don't often respect the difference. Especially with the kind of tooling I deal with, the differences aren't usually important. The original poster asked if he had been looking at "jigs" or "fixtures". Well, if you *really* have to know the difference, there's a way to tell, and I used to have to teach this so I know the difference.
But the guy who's saying, "You need to be careful and not call jigs fixtures," is vastly overstating the issue. If you said something like that around our manufacturers they'd laugh and accuse you of being some sort of Tool Nazi.
If you want to call a jig a fixture, or a fixture a jig, or call it all "tooling" (which I do a lot), or point to it and call it a "thinga-ma-bob", you'll probably find me doing it right alongside you.
--Jay
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