Setting up a new (used) table saw

[Josh]

I recently purchased a used Delta 10" Tilting Arbor Saw. I found mixed reviews on the saw, but at $450 for the saw and a 50" biesemeyer fence I figured it was a pretty good deal since most of the new contractor saws I had looked at were quite a bit more than that for just the saw.

I finally got the 220V outlet put into my garage/workshop for the saw (it only runs on 220) and have been setting it up over the last few evenings. I purchased a TS-Aligner (that I think is awesome BTW) to help me set up the saw and since this is my first TS I have a few questions. :-) I have aligned the fence using the TS-Aligner. I think I have it about as good as I am going to get it. When I run the aligner along the fence the reading fluctuates .002 of an inch in both directions along the face of the fence. Is this acceptable? Also, depending on which miter slot I measure from, the fence is either pretty much right on parallel or out of parallel by .003 of an inch or so. What is the tolerance between the miter gauges? Like I said this is my first TS so I have no idea how right on these measurements should be.

Also, I have purchased a biesemeyer anti-kickback splitter for the saw, but there is currently no slot in the insert for the splitter (it did not come with one when I bought it). What is the best way to cut this slot?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Josh

[Charlie Self]

Josh asks:

Which model?

You want to align the fence with the saw blade, which is what needs to be aligned with the miter slot. Go back to step one, align the blade with the slot, and THEN align the blade with the fence.

If there is any difference, make sure it is to the rear, with the distance opening up at the rear of the blade. This prevents pinching which can cause kickback.

Measure from the miter slot on the side on which you are making your cuts. The miter slots should be very, very close to parallel, but I don't recall what the specs are for Delta's saws right now. I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about .003", though.

Make a zero clearance insert. Cut the slot in the insert. Make the insert of phenolic, MDF, aluminum (soft alloy), your choice. Use the current insert to trace and outline. Bandsaw it out (scroll saw, jig saw, whatever's available). Rout the edges smooth aiming for a tight fit (drill a 3/4" hole all the way through the insert on the side opposite that where the blade rises for easy removal). You can either use tapped in adjustment screws to level the insert, or you can leave it be. Clamp to the table (in the insert hole) keeping clamps well clear of the where the blade will rise. Start the saw, blade down, and slowly bring the blade up into the new insert. Now, remove the insert and cut the slot for your splitter.

You will probably have to change to an 8" blade to be able to lower the blade below the bottom of the uncut insert. Or you can rout a short slot for relief where the blade will rise. Do NOT penetrate the entire insert.

It's really simpler than it sounds and it beats trying to modify a steel insert with mostly woodworking tools.

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[Frank Ketchum]

Just one comment for Josh, make a few inserts at once. You will need them.

Frank

[Josh]

Thanks for the info. The model # is 36-755, but the previous owner had added a biesemeyer fence instead of the original jet-lock fence.

I had already aligned the blade to the miter slot using the ts-aligner (jr.) and was aligning the fence to the same miter slot. I don't think there is a way to align the fence directly to the blade using the ts-aligner.

Josh

[Charlie Self]

Should be. I don't have my Aligner in my hand at the moment, but...if you can't figure a way to use that, try the old fashioned way.

Mark one blade tip at the front of the table (unplug that sucker first). Set the fence along the miter slot, as close to a dead on line up as you can. Measure from the blade tip to the fence. Rotate the blade so the tip is at the rear of the table (or as close as it gets, of course). Measure from the blade tip to the fence. Keep it up until you cannot see the difference, or until you've reached a 1/64th inch kickout at the rear of the blade. I think the Aligner will work for this, too, giving a much more precise measurement, but it's a bit more complex. I don't recall if it is in the tape or not, or the manual.

You're right, though: if the miter slot lines up with the blade and the fence lines up with the miter slot, all should be well. It just makes me itchy to introduce a third variable when two can be used.

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[patrick conroy]

Which model? Off hand, I'd agree sounds like a good/great deal.

Tolerance between the miter *slots*? Not sure, in any case .002/.003 sounds damned good to me. I wouldn't spend any more time chasing a coupl'a thou's.

[Ed Bennett]

Hi Charlie, hope all is going well.

Hmmm.... Well.... Actually.... No. The saw blade just doesn't make a good alignment reference. I would (and do) advise against this practice as it can easily lead to a dangerous misalignment condition. It's always better to pick a miter slot and align everything to it.

This is a great practice for those who use the traditional (and subjective) "feel the rub" or "hear the scrape" alignment methods because of the high degree of uncertainty involved. The idea is that it's better to err on the safe side. However, if you use a dial indicator jig (like the TS-Aligner Jr. mentioned) then there is no significant uncertainty - align everything parallel to the slot.

If you do decide to open up the alignment in the rear of the blade, don't do it by changing the blade alignnment. Doing so will screw it up for cross cuts. The blade should always be aligned parallel to the slot. The best practice is to modify the fence alignment (with respect to the miter slot) so that only rip cuts are affected.

Absolutely correct, 0.003" misalignment (especially on your cross cuts) is not going to make any difference in the quality or safety of your cuts. Even when using a low clearance angle blade (like the Forrest WW series) on a burn-prone wood (like cherry) you won't see any problems below 0.005" in either direction (0.010" total).

Hope it helps. Questions and comments are welcome!

Thanks, Ed Bennett [e-mail]

[Charlie Self]

Ed Bennett responds:

Only argument there is that eventually the blade has to be part of the mix. As a preference, I'd use a Freud flat disc, after checking the arbor and arbor bearing for runout and, for the latter, flatness on its internal side.

Most people, though, are going to use the blade tips, I'll bet.

Still, if you're using the TSAligner, then there really isn't a whole lot of excuse for sloppy measuring, though I don't consider .003" sloppy with woodworking tool set-up. I see you don't, either.

Otherwise, I'm doing pretty well for a fat old guy who has bounced around too much in the past 3 years or so. Just got back from Atlanta Monday--not IWF, but a press deal for Ryobi--and am fairly well determined never to go there again. Too big, too crowded, too---much, I guess.

Considering I was born and raised just outside NYC, that's saying a lot, I think.

Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

[igor]

I would strongly endorse one particular point that Charlie makes -- and go a bit further (or maybe just add emphasis). Namely, purposely make the far end of the fence at least 2 hundredths of an inch farther from the miter slot than the near end is. Along the length of the fence that ain't much

-- and it is much less along the length of the blade. But, it helps ensure that the far end is not closer to the slot than is the near end -- which, as Charlie suggested, can be bad, very bad. When I set up my first TS about a year ago I wanted everything perfectly parallel and used a dial gauge. But I realized that I should take into account small measuring mistakes that could be made and bumps of the fence here and there and wanted to err clearly on the side of safety. FWIW. -- Igor

[Joseph Smith]

Hey Josh, You are being loaded with some of the best info possible by some of the most knowledgeable. The problem is...is that you can get over loaded because these guys can stay on this topic for two weeks and constatntly add new stuff (no offense meant to Charlie and the gang). My latest Shop Notes Vol. 13 Issue 77 covers this very thing and what your responders have been talking about...but it goes one step further....ITS GOT PICTURES. Now that's how this dumb ol weekend woodworker likes it!!!! You should be able to purchase it at www.ShopNotes .com. It has both the basic align and the fancy thingamajig aligners. Hope this helps.

Joey

[Ed Bennett]

Sorry, there isn't. And, there shouldn't be. It's just not a good practice. I recommend against it.

Charlie, this just sounds like you should give it some more thought. Generally speaking, those who advocate a deliberate misalignment (for safety) are talking about adjusting the fence 1/64" in relation to the miter slot. If your slot is 24" long, that amounts to about 0.00065" misalignment per inch. So, for the eight inches or so of exposed blade, it amounts to about 0.005" total blade misalignment. It's plenty safe but on the edge of what I would call acceptable for quality. And, you aren't going to be able to eyeball this with a scale no matter how good your eyes are. The advice you give here (1/64" of blade misalignment) would amount to nearly 0.016". Sharp, young eyes shouldn't have any trouble seeing this on a scale. However, this degree of misligment is (in my opinion) outright dangerous.

For adjusting the fence alignment with respect to the miter slot, yes, the Aligner works quite well for this. I'm not sure I would call it "more complex", just read the number directly off of the dial indicator. 1/64" is roughly 0.016". It's a heck of a lot easier for an old fart like me than to try and read a 64ths scale!

This sounds distinctively Leedsian. Such haunting words...repeated verbatium. It sends chills up my spine. Especially this "third variable" idea. The best practice which most consistently yields accurate results is to align both the blade and the fence to a single "machined in cast iron" refrence: the miter slot. It's just not a good practice to allow the blade to dictate your fence alignment.

Ed Bennett [e-mail]

[Ed Bennett]

Of course. The blade is properly aliged for both ripping and cross cutting when it is parallel to the miter slot. The fence is properly aligned for ripping when it is parallel to the miter slot.

Yep, a lot of people do this. However, the sides of the teeth are deliberately ground at an angle to prevent them from rubbing the inside of the kerf. So, it is very difficult to obtain reliable measurements from their surfaces.

The flat blade replacement plate works fine so long as it is really flat. I have yet to find one commercially that is. I made one up special for the Wood Magazine review because they were planning to use a well advertised but particularly poor quality item for their testing. I surface ground mine from solid 3/4" thick hot rolled low carbon steel (A36). My goal was to guarantee 0.001" accuracy over it's 10" width. Not exactly an easy task. And, to top it all off, it's completely unnecessary.

The best practice is to mark a spot on the blade body. Take all your measurements with the dial indicator stylus on that spot. Rotate the blade as necessary to move the spot from front to rear. This spot will always travel in a circle within the plane of the blade, absolutely perpendicular to its rotational axis (arbor). This technique is guaranteed to work better than any blade replacement plate you can buy. Better than any I can make in my shop (which is why I can't justify offering any for sale).

Nope, it's pretty darn good. Doing better won't yield any noticable improvements in performance or quality.

Glad to hear that you are having so much fun! Yes, been to both Atlanta and NYC. Prefer Idaho. It sounds like you are starting to get some well earned attention for your hard work. Congrats! I wish I had more time for the ng. Sounds like you've managed well.

Ed Bennett [e-mail]

[Charlie Self]

Ed Bennet responds"

snip of agreement

Yeah, I was gonna say I'd like one like the one you did for Wood, but I don't have the resources of Meredith behind me, so...

Anyway, I agree with your next paragraph, and will steal it for my own use if you don't mind.

Charlie Self "A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward." Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio address, Oct. 26, 1939

[GerryG]

Ed, I'll agree with all else, but pick on the fence rear distance. I had some problem with slight burning with several woods, and tried adjusting the fence rear away from the blade by: 0, .002, .005, .010, etc. In most cases, .006 was enough, but items such as thick cherry needed about twice that. Going further did not produce any additional benefit.

As an aside, I just moved cross-country, and had to reassemble and align everything, virtually from scratch. This includes the TS, RAS, jointer, BS, DP, router table, chop saw and others. A full day's work, and the TS-aligner paid for itself yet again. And with that platform fixture and indicator tips, it's still the fastest and most accurate way I've ever found to set jointer knives.

GerryG (An old and satisfied TS-aligner customer)

[Ed Bennett]

Hi Gerry,

Good to hear from you!

I have to admit, there are some times when you might want to open up the alignment a bit at the rear end of the fence. Cutting cherry with a very low clearance angle blade (like the Forrest WW II) is probably the most challenging situation. In essense, the minor misalignment increases the effective clearance angle on the good side of the cut. Correspondingly, the clearance angle decreases on the waste side of the cut. If there is too much misalignment, the wood will tend to wander away from the fence during the cut. It's a pretty dangerous situation because the wood is being fed without guidance. Attempts to keep it against the fence can cause burning on the waste side or even a kickback.

Burning is caused by heat. Heat that is generated during normal cutting isn't usually eough to cause burning. Most of this heat is carried away in the sawdust. Burning most often occurs when the sides of the teeth rub against the inside of the kerf rather than cut wood. This happens when the blade is dull, coated with pitch, or there is poor alignment. You can minimize heat by reducing the number of teeth in the cut (raising the blade all the way up) and feeding the wood at the proper speed (just a bit below what it takes to start slowing down the motor).

I generally advise people to do exactly what you did. Change the fence alignment in very small increments (0.001") until the burning goes away. Never go beyond 0.015" total fence to miter slot misalignment. If you get this far and are still having burning, then something else is very wrong (dull blade, improperly sharpened blade, improperly installed blade, reaction wood, etc.). Having a precise alignment tool makes the process pretty easy, don't you think?

Glad to be of service!

Thanks, Ed Bennett (The old and satisfied TS-Alginer maker!) [e-mail]