seasoning equipment

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some time ago i read an article on a metal lathe manufacturer and they talked a little about seasoning the large metal parts of the large lathes
there is probably a more suitable term than seasoning but the idea is that they would leave the material outside for months and more in the elements and exposed
then later they would check it for trueness and check for any internal stress based on the analysis the part would either get used or recycled
i wonder if this is done with woodworking equipment
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Seasoning is the normal term. In days of yore it was common for big castings - the thinking being, that the surface of a casting cools faster than the insides, creating a stressed skin, and then when the casting is machined (and the skin cut) the stress releases in undesirable ways.
Now-a-days I think castings are usually destressed by thermal cycling them thru ovens and chillers a few times. So the only cast iron that gets seasoned now is frying pans.
John
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On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:30:08 +0000 (UTC)

are mill and lathe bedways cast or extruded maybe they were talking about only castings
i need to try to find that article but they were doing this with parts that had already been partially machined

i would think with a casting you would just let it cool more slowly and control the cool down
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On 08/11/2015 5:33 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

Years ago, ca. 1980 I purchased a Powermatic 66 TS with pickup at the factory in McMinnville, TN, being as lived not far away in Oak Ridge area. As part of the treat got a tour through the facility and one of the areas they showed me was the seasoning piles -- mounds of raw castings for jointers, saws, planers, etc., etc., 20 and 30 ft high where they were just piled out in the yard for 6 months or so before being brought in for final milling and assembly. I was totally unprepared for the sight...
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On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:54:07 -0500

that would have been a sight to see for sure
i wonder if they make anything in the states anymore must be so difficult to compete with the low quality jet and grizzly and others
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On 08/13/2015 10:51 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

Looked like nothing so much as a scrap yard with piles of rusty cast iron...
There's a typo above; the 6 months was intended as 16 altho I forget whether they had a specific time or not...the piles were a given age of castings and I think were produced in large number at a given time and then were used up over a period of time altho the visit was so long ago now as to have forgotten most of the specifics...
Jet, Powermatic, Performax, Wilton, and I don't know who all else are now all owned by a conglomerate call JPW Industries. AFAIK nothing is manufactured in the US; some of it is assembled in La Vergne, TN (near Smyrna, SE of Nashville a little ways) from Taiwanese parts. I don't know if they've outsourced some of the castings to other foundries or not, either. I just looked on the satellite thru google maps and the old facility in McMinnville has been razed entirely it appears; down to nothing but some piles of rubble and a few walls standing.
Sad, but "global economics rules"...
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On 8/13/2015 2:29 PM, dpb wrote:

That's definetly how it would be done, the foundary would run them off, then move on. And 16 months sounds better than 6. But knowing how everyone wants to make a buck quickly 6 could have been the number

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Jeff

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On 08/13/2015 3:26 PM, woodchucker wrote:

At that time PM was still independent and ran the way they had, essentially, from the git-go where the product was the thing. The import market hadn't yet become a threat to their market; that came somewhat later when things got really tough.
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On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:29:40 -0500

right but to think they are to become final product is not all the expected for most people

yes 6 sounds short the article i read was for high tolerance machine lathes and the time frame was years and as you said they too just dumped them out into the field
they also mentioned that the seasoning process was very limiting for the business when sales shot up because new product had to be planned for far in advance

was just looking at powermatic their prices don't seem to reflect their taiwanese heritage
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On 08/13/2015 8:24 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

It was, at that time, certainly a surprise to me having no knowledge of casting and foundry operations at the time...later I became well acquainted with a fellow who was engineering manager for initially Lynchburg (VA) foundry then several others over the southeast and learned a fair amount about their operations...

That would depend on how much backlog they cast for; PM had at the time I was there probably several years' of production lined up. Of course, there weren't/aren't very many really large, terribly complicated (hence very expensive) castings in the woodworking machine of the size they were making...not like some of the commercial four- or six-shaft moulders or the like...

They're still the "Cadillac" of the industry; generally they will outweigh and have features and finish that the others don't, but partly there is the name just as Deere green paint gathers a premium in part from its reputation.
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On 8/14/2015 7:58 AM, dpb wrote:

nearly 700 lbs and has a larger trunnion and arbor diameter at the bearings. But that said Powermatic is still right at the top.
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On 08/14/2015 9:36 AM, Leon wrote:

Possibly so, actually...they're still the new kid on the block that I never really think of; not on my radar so didn't even cross my mind...
I have seen them on a showroom floor in Wichita and they do look good and I agree they're a top-drawer unit...
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On 8/14/2015 2:05 PM, dpb wrote:

Now I don't know so much about the Pro series, I have the Industrial series. The Pro series just seemed dinky in size compared to the industrial and even my old Jet cabinet saw.
Check out the iron sitting on the front and back of the cabinet. There is plenty in between too. ;~)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8635558850/in/album-72157622991960362/
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On 08/14/2015 2:25 PM, Leon wrote:

The PM 2000 base saw is 530 lb; the Sawstop Pro is 540 according to each manufacturer's data (had to download manual to find it for PM) so they're quite equivalent in base machine heft.
I don't know what a current Unisaur would go at; probably somewhere between or more nearly the Pro would be my guess but I didn't go look.
The only place in Wichita that carries any "real" w-working equipment is not a PM dealer so haven't really seen the 2000 hands-on to compare fit 'n finish to the old Model 66 which was, of course, top notch. I don't recall what it weighs. Well, an online manual says 640+/- w standard wings for shipping so I'd guess in the 500 lb range for the base unit; perhaps a little under. Not _that_ far off methinks...
Well, while doing it looked up the current Unisaw -- no base unit weight found but 3HP 36" rails and standard wings is 624; again not that dissimilar but probably a little under the other two.
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On 8/14/2015 3:10 PM, dpb wrote:

Check the industrial SawStop.
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On 08/14/2015 10:53 PM, Leon wrote:

That _IS_ the industrial SawStop.
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On 08/15/2015 8:01 AM, dpb wrote:

I thought I had put in the Sawstop data as well...from their site
contract professional industrial Weights - saw only: 225 317/335 (1.75/3hp) 530 lbs
It's only possible to compare the base saws themselves; accessories such as the wings, extension tables, etc., etc., are too variable to be meaningful. The nearly 700 figure (685 actually) comes with the 52" fence system.
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On 8/15/2015 8:18 AM, dpb wrote:

Well regardless which of these saws are you going to use with out a fence system? The lightest weight industrial SS is 635 lbs. in a usable configuration.
The industrial does not have the left wing extension attached. It makes for an odd shaped shipping package. You have to add the left wing, right fence table extension, and the 3 table support and fence rails and fence.
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On 08/15/2015 8:59 AM, Leon wrote:

It's the base saw weight that reflects the mass of the trunnions and all which is the key item. The whole point is that there's little difference in that mass between any of the commercial saws, PM, Unisaw, Sawstop; they're all within 10% of the mean.
The others all also have to have wings, fence, etc., etc., etc., to end up with a net weight well above that of the base saw; how much is totally dependent upon the various options one can choose.
The 685 of your Sawstop with 52" fence and Biesemeyer is only 7% above the listed weight (640) of my PM66 with just the two 50" extension rails, standard wings and standard fence; adding the full-length solid table and an equivalent fence would bring the 66 up to virtually identical, perhaps even more. Hence, they're essentially identical in heft; there's simply _not_ that much more "beef" in the Sawstop although again I agree it's a fine machine.
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On 8/15/2015 9:32 AM, dpb wrote:

PM2000, at least that was what I was looking at, if considering a new purchase. The PM66 would have been my first choice in 1999. But the Jet was sooooooo much less expensive. The 2000 is absolutely a cool saw. I hane no idea how it compares to the 66 but if I were betting I would say the 66 would be the better saw. The 2000 seems to be more suited towards the hobbyist/pro. It has built in features that the hobbyist would appreciate, especially the built in mobility system. But I think it has always been built over seas like SS. Oddly IMHO the 2000 looks more old school than the 66.
Two years ago, because I was looking for a safer saw than my 1999 model I was looking at SS, naturally, and the Laguna TSS with scoring knife and sliding table. That that saw is freaking heavy, 1054 lbs. While the Laguna does not have as many safety features it did have some great extras and I could have swallowed the price but there was nothing wrong with my Jet cabinet saw and my only reason for trading up was to get as much built in safety as possible. SS won out.
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