Responses about newsreaders -Thanks

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Thanks for all the responses about newsreaders. It will keep me busy for a while checking out a suitable one.
Sam
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On 04 Feb 2005 23:02:33 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnospam (Sambo145) wrote:

If you decide on Agent and need a registration key I can email you the one I am using which I found on the internet.
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Tight ass bastard, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you use every day AND get free upgrades for.
<shakes head in disgust>
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No Spam wrote:

Further, they have a very usable _free_ version of it. Geez, some people . . .

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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wrote:

I prefer to keep my *Canadian* dollars. Thanks eh.
************************************** I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*. Is it ironic that he lives on a farm? **************************************
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<snip>
There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space. Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.
Given the low cost and/or free software made available....
Patriarch
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.
Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.
************************************** I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*. Is it a coincidence that he lives on a farm? **************************************
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One would certainly hope this is the case. If a business cannot sell its product for more than it costs to manufacture, that business will not remain in business long. (The old saw, "We're losing $5 per unit we sell, but that's OK, we'll make up for it in volume" doesn't work in the real world).
What gets people irate with Bill is the fact that his company has engaged in some significant strong-arm tactics and questionable tactics that, in many peoples' mind are borderline unethical in order to maintain its operating system monopoly. The fact that Msoft makes money is not the issue, it's how it prevents competition and subjugates users and computer manufacturers.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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wrote:

Bill Gates isn't the issue here. He's no hero of mine, but that's not the point.
Free software is available to do the job as well or better. Folks donated that effort into the public domain so that you and I don't have to make an ethical decision to use, without compensating the author(s), software which has not been so donated.
I didn't, and don't, want to make an issue of it. You are free to make your own choices. But there are those here who feel strongly about this. Since you are relatively new to this venue, I thought maybe you'd like to know why some are offended.
Patriarch
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jaime writes:

He wouldn't have made a nickel if it cost the same or more to manufacture it.
Charlie Self "I think we agree, the past is over." George W. Bush
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And the point is?
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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wrote:

It's OK to steal and share it with others.
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That if Windows, and Internet Virus Explorer really did work it might be worth something to justify the cost and subsequent enrichment of the MS group. :-)
I'm all for people making money -- by selling stuff that works. Not so sure about Windows and its security holes being priced appropriately.
Other than that, you're right. :-)) What's the point?
Mike Marlow wrote:

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
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so, using that rationalization, it's ok to steal from him?
I find that in way too many cases, morals are defined as fear of getting caught..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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Then one is free to do without them. Isn't choice wonderful?

Of course it does. He also has developers and lawyers to pay, and they have families to feed.

That's the thing. As much as I disrespect, loathe, detest, and dislike Bill Gates, I won't steal from him. Couple reasons, but even back when I _was_ using Windows, I wouldn't steal from him.

Yes, and people who don't care about ethics always have a way to justify stealing what they want. Some of us here make our living in the software industry, and take that sort of thing kind of personally...
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personally...
Very true, but it's more than that. It's not just software and those of us who did, or currently do make our living off of it. It's the bigger issue of theft. Those who justify any type of theft in the way that jamie tried to are equally comfortable justifying another type of theft. It's just a matter of applying a justification to it and the discomfort that should be associated with it disappears. Theft is theft, whether it's software, woodworking, music, or anything else. Sadly, our society is losing touch with the simple moral issue associated with theft. It was unbelievable to watch the battle over downloading music illegally play out. The justifications presented were very revealing with respect to the American attitude towards what the individual is "entitled" to, versus what the simple matter of the law is.
--

-Mike-
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<snip>

I found it very interesting to watch various cultural and historical issues play out, with regard to intellectual property, while involved in the international telecommunications equipment industry. It is simple to say that there are vastly differing cultural heritage issues at work here. Beyond that, things get muddy pretty quickly.
What's 'right', which seems pretty clear to you and me, seems to vary greatly. And those who proceed without an understanding of that situation are not likely to prosper in their efforts.
Patriarch, not preaching on a Monday...
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Patriarch responds:

I'm not at all sure those moral issues are from differing heritages: most kids my grandchildrens' ages seem to feel entitled to peel whatever they want off the Internet (music, mainly, but also games) without paying anything at all. With that right goes the extension that it now belongs to them, so they can do as they wish as far as passing it along goes.
That may be a differing cultural heritage, but, hey, we're all WASPs, though I'm far less serious about the P part of that than the kids' parents are.
You've got to wonder, I would think, just what is going to happen to the inducement to create new songs, new stories, new plans when the chance of making a living at doing so disappears. Spend a month designing a new workbench, another month building it, a week writing it up, and get paid $1500-$2000 for an article on it on the web (good luck with those amounts, by the way, but also consider just how well paid you are at that rate per nine weeks). And forget about using it elsewhere, because everyone who wants it downloads what's on the web, now and into the unforeseable future. Spend however long it takes to write a song, play it once and it's gone, no money, or little money, because, viola, it now belongs to the masses.
Different culture? Music will out, I'm told, as it did in the '30s and '40s, resulting in the '60s and '70s folk music craze. Sure it will. Do we want to know how much money some of those folksingers made during that time? Do we want to live with that kind of fairly uniform music?
I don't know what the answers are, but if we expect creativity in any area of our lives, we'd best not step too far away from rewarding the creators with a decent living--we really don't do that particularly well now (reference a guy who sang a particularly godawful song, 'Achy, Breaky Heart', getting a $27 million six month royalty payment on that POS some years ago), but a step towards universal free use of everything published in any way is not a step in the right direction.
It may not seem to matter when you steal from already well paid musicians or programmers, but it does help set an attitude saying that theft doesn't matter. To call it other than theft, we'd need to change our moral and legal bases. It may be different internationally: that's only to be expected. That is not to say that our particular approach is wrong, though. It may well be that the cultural biases of other nations are the ones that don't work as well as do ours.
Charlie Self "I think we agree, the past is over." George W. Bush
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:52:49 -0800, mac davis

Software is only "cheap" in the distribution. Making it WORK is hard. What numerical accuracy do you expect from your ATM machine in a 32-digit calculation? Now try to get that kind of accuracy out of a PC.
While you're working on that, I'll reproduce the works of Norm, Stickley, Chippendale, and every anonymous Shaker who ever lived.
Oh . . . and I recommend the slrn newsreader.
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch

============================I have no problem paying for software that I can install on all of my home computers... BUT I do have a problem with the fact that I can not Buy a single copy of Windows XP and install it on each of my computers ... In a case like that I would resort to "stealing"
Imagine owning a Forrest WW11 blade and can only use it on one tablesaw...
Bob Griffiths
Bob Griffiths
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