raised panel (again)

[CNT]

above, used Word Doc to draw and type my questions. Reply in here.

Chuck

[toller]

If there is a standard I haven't heard about it. I have used different sizes on two cabinets next to each other to fit in with their proportions. They look great.

If you think a certain width looks good, use it. Or am I misunderstanding your question.

[CNT]

I just want to know if there was common size used. Like common size lumber is 3/4" thickness. Also, common saw blade is 10", 8" for dado (even lot use 6").

No, you understood my question, did I just ESP you?

Another thing I wanted to know if there was a minimum thickness for the between D and A, but assume I just need to make sure the top (where the end of B starts the groove) is about 1/16" (or 1/8"?), right?

Chuck

[Jody]

There really is not a standard but around 2" is pleasing on the eye. I make all mine 2 7/16" "your A". You will lose "D" inside the rail and your eye will see "B" first and it will be 2". Also your rail ends will get a cope cut and fit inside "D". It makes it easy to get the rail length and panel width. If you lose the 7/16 in the cope cut and left with 2" "B". Take the total door width and subtract 4" "B" on both stiles. All this is determined by your cutters. Mine cut a 7/16" profile. I have used another set that cut at 1/2" so I just cut my parts

2 1/2"

CNT wrote:

[David]

item #3: didn't I explain about the reason for 2-7/16 for widths of stiles and rails, or was that another person who I responded to about a week or two ago? anyway, if you use CMT bits, using 2-7/16 makes it a breeze to calculate the lengths of the rails and the panel because of the cope depth.

Dave

CNT wrote:

[David]

I just checked the old posts. I DID go over the reason for 2-7/16 with you before...

Dave

CNT wrote:

[CNT]

I DID looked for it, it's gone (I think my NG Reader goes to 10 days). When I was reading that post, I still didn't understand it. I want to read it over again. Can you copy/paste that post again (or email to me)?

Chuck

[David]

Here's a copy of the 2 posts of mine from the other thread:

Actually, setting the height for the first cut is the only one that you'll need to "try out". Get the height correct for the cope, make the cope cuts on the ends of the rails, and then change bits. The second bit's height is a breeze to set up--all you have to do is align the cutter that makes the groove align with the tongue you just cut on the ends of the rails. Any slight mismatch is handled by sanding the completely door frame. Of course, you don't want to be off much; I shoot for perfection, and usually get it close enough that a bit of sanding flushes all the parts. I'm not talking fractions of an inch; I'm talking less than .005.

You'll have less headaches if you get your hands on the Sommerfeld instructions. Start here:

will give you the instructions! \

The gap on each side of the panel should be 1/8".

Use Spaceballs or Panalign strips in the grooves to center the panel and help reduce rattling.

Like I said the other day, 7/16 depth is what CMT uses.

The cope cutter is used on the ends of the rails. Watch the depth--makes sure you don't leave just a sliver of wood on the top edge. Typical shoulder on front side is 1/8" thick.

The stile cutter is used on all 4 pieces.

Raised panel cutter cuts the panel.

Dave

CNT wrote:

[CNT]

So, you use 2-7/16" for A then, since your CMT bits are 7/16" ( at D ) ? This will make the B at 2" even. Correct?

I take it that the goal "everyone" thrives is to get the B at 2". So, it's 2" plus the bit depth for rails and stiles.

Chuck

[LP]

No, not everyone. I seldom deviate from rail&stile stock that is

2-1/4" wide overall. I'm not sure why you're concerned about B since its not particularly relevant, and its going to change maybe, depending on whether you leave that corner square or put a decorative cut on it (roundover w/bead is my standard).

FWIW COPE = that cut or shape thats made on the ends of the rails. STICK= that cut or shape thats made on the inside edge of rails and stiles These terms originated in the making of full size doors for homes, AFAIK.

That 7/16" figure for the depth of the panel slot isn't set in stone either. Cutters that make this depth 3/8" are also common.

[Wilson Lamb]

I probably shouldn't admit some of this... I make all my own stock (from trees) and I'm not interested in standards. I find a straight board(s) and rip out rail/stile stock for the job at hand. If the board is wide enough, I'll reduce the width of the target stock to allow ripping in half, thirds, etc, somewhere around 2 1/2-3". On big cabinets, I let it go larger. On one tall narrow door, I went down to about

1 1/2".

Next I do the cuts for the panel, then measure from the outer edge to the bottom of the panel groove. Subtracting twice that measurement from the finished width gives me the length of the rails. The panel width is 1/8" less than the rail length. An aside here: If the door is fairly wide, I adjust the frame width to accommodate whatever board I'm using for the panel...almost always a single board. In that case, just work backward from the panel width toward the total. I'll usually put in a middle rail rather than glue up a wide panel.

When actually cutting, I set my shaper to eat 20-30 thou off the stock at each cut, so I leave things a little long and a little wide and then creep up on the final dimension.

The same sort of measurement applies to the vertical dimensioning of the panel. The stile length is the opening height plus twice the overlap minus the clearance.

Now the final humiliating admission: Sometimes I'll clamp down two straight sticks separated by my finished width, make the frame stock, lay it between the sticks, and then measure the panel space.

All this sounds awful, but it's a hell of a lot more fun than all that autocad stuff, which bears a strong resemblance to being in an office doing what one is told to do. If I mixed up anything, drop me a note.

OOPS, last step. After the door is completely glued and dried, cut the edge profile. Since thedoor is a little fat, you may go around twice.

AND you did adjust the widths for double doors that only have three overhangs, didn't you? If not, I have some extras I could send you. Guess why they are extra. Wilson

I'll see if I have a picture of the still incomplete kitchen. Look on ABPW for Kitchen. Get some junk pine and make a couple of prototypes...you'll stop worrying and feel better immediately! Wilson

[dadiOH]

The "B" surface is called "the top". "A" is the width, not the length.

You might want to give some thought to the panels you are going to put in those frames. Looking at your drawing, the groove for the panel tongue looks mighty skinny...the cutters I have used make a 1/4" groove. Not much uncut twixt the groove and bottom either, easy to split off when you put in the panel...

-- dadiOH ____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at

[David]

That's it!

Dave

CNT wrote:

[Leon]

1. Chuck typically I use Euro style hinges that require holes on the back side of the stile that are 1-3/8" wide plus 1/8" material on the door edge side of that hole and about 1/2" extra so that the hold does not go into the area represented by your "D" distance. I almost always use stock that is 2" wide. Wider than that and small doors tend to look to massive around the perimeter. This width works fine for large doors also.
2. Again, I use the same size through out the project, never changing sizes on a project. I almost always use 2" wide stock.
3. The reason, someone's preference but no rule. And yes you are correct for your question concerning the surface being 2" wide.
4. Not that have ever mattered as long as the hinge fits OK with out intruding into the molded edge.
5. Basically, use the size you want that will accommodate the hinge.

[Wilson Lamb]