Question on routers and router tables

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I gotta say, the weather man is never totally accurate either.
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On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:43:43 -0500, "Leon"

I read somewhere, some time ago, that an easy way to beat the weatherman's forecast accuracy is to simply take today's reported weather and use that for tomorrow's forecast.
But weather is a chaotic system and the forecasters really do a pretty good job of near term forecasting. On the other hand, above the quantum level, the physics of electricity is a deterministic system and there's no excuse for that kind of inaccuracy. Misleading at best, fraud at worst.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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wrote:

That sounds reasonable. Some observations, go outside moments before the forcast and report what you see and feel. Several years ago when we first got going on Satelite Dish programing we were only able to get the major broad cast stations from New York or Los Angeles IIRC. We had to pick which ever one worked the best for us with reguard to program times. We went with the East coast network and I found that the New Youk City metropolitan area "rain" forcast was often more accurate than the local forcast here in Houston. If it was going to rain in NY it would probably rain in Houston as well. LOL

Yeah, but I think it has become pretty common place to understand that the hp and amp ratings are more of an indicator of how that tool will perform as compared to one with less or higher ratings. Automobile manufacturers rate hp of their engines and that is fine if you have the engine directly hooked up to a dyno. Unfortunately those hp numbers are reduced when the engine is attached to a transmission, drive shaft, differential, and axel. And those perceived numbers are further reduced when the same engine is matched to a larger vehicle or truck. I highly suspect that the 3.5 hp and 15 amp rating is closer to accurate than say the hp that is at the wheels of my Tundra that has a 382 hp rating but I know that this particular engine will perform better than the engine with the 235 hp rating.
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"Leon"> wrote

a ......... weather man.
Both profession require you to make big promises and lie a lot.
He called it "integrity".
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When my son was about 4 years old he wanted to be the guy that rode on the back of the garbage truck and collected garbage. I questioned him on that a few minutes wondering what the attraction was and was relieved to learn that he wanted to ride on the back of the truck. I asked if he had ever smelled the garbage in those trucks and he replied with a nod and said that it stunk. I reminded him that riding on that truck all day would require him to smell that stink all day also.
Before I realized that my son was pretty smart I kiddingly would remind him that he could be come a doctor or a weather forecaster. NO ONE would ever seriously expect you to diagnose or forecast it correctly every time. Fortunately he has done well in school and I now kiddingly remind him that he is his mother's and my revised "Retirement Plan". :~)
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"Lee Michaels" wrote

Or, in the case of weather predictors, "guess" a lot.
I will say that I've been slightly impressed the past few years with their accuracy, more or less. Being in the construction business, I start every Monday morning updating the top line of each day in my "week-at-a-glance" organizer for the next 15 day forecast, and correcting those wrong from the prior week.
The past few years there has been a lot less correcting necessary.
--
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"Swingman" wrote ..

I assume that the geology around there is fairly consistent and straightforward to forcast. I live in Seattle in the middle of the "Puget Sound Convergence Zone". The weather people around here really have to work hard.
We got a body of water in front of us (Puget Sound). We have some mountains on the other side of that (Olympic Mountains) with the Pacific Ocean on the other side of them. And behind us, we have the Cascade mountain range. We also have Canada to the north of us who likes to send us some nasty cold weather now and then. In addition to all these varibles, in the winter, the snow level varies daily. with lots of variations in elevation.
What then happens is about thirty little microclimates depending where you are in this Chaos model. And as any good Chaos model will do, it is moody and unpredictable. This winter had snow falling almost half the time somewhere. Except for the really big storms, they hardly ever got it right. Parts of the year, their computer models work really well. Increase the number of storms or weather patterns, it becomes a true mockery of any kind of predictive process.
We often compare the weather lies to the Mayor lies. Who was the bigget liar yesterday kind of discussion.
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"Lee Michaels" wrote

Much less complicated climate wise hereabouts. Around here it is either raining, or it isn't ... nothing much else matters/happens.
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"Lee Michaels" wrote:

Let's see, summer is July 4 & 5.
After that, snow or rain.
Kind of like Cleveland.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

We had wonderful Summers in Cleveland. And because of our position in the time zone, it didn't get dark until about 9:30, end of June-beginning on July.
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-MIKE-

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"-MIKE-" wrote:

Yep, as I would tell my mother, July 4&5.

Right after "Blackberry Winter" which is usually mid June.
Can still remember finishing up on the 18th hole at Pleasant Valley around 10:00PM in late June.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I don't know, Lew, I remember having long winters *and* summers.
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-MIKE-

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Leon wrote:

He is, in hindsight, which is a benefit the router manufacturers get to take advantage of.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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LOL, I cannot agree with that either. It is not unusual for the local weather guy to say we need the rain it has been days since we have gotten any. He then states that the official rainfall measurement was "zip" when for the same time period, same city, I measure 1.5". Or visa versa.
The thing that gets my goat is when they comment that the high/ low temp is/was "X" degrees above or below normal for the day to exaggerate the heat or cold temperature conditions for any given day. What the heck do they think "normal" means? It is absolutely normal for the temperature to not be exactly the same all the time. It would make much more sense if they indicated the same figures as compared to the "AVERAGE" temp of a particular day.
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Well that use to be true but in the last 4 or 5 years routers have been emerging that are specifically designed for use in a router table or for hand held use. The Triton router is one such router, I have it. It can be coarse or fine tune adjusted and the bit can be changed above the table. The fan does not let debris fall down into the motor even if it is not running.
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I'm in the market for a new router since my 3hp Makita was stolen from my best friend's garage. How easy is the fine adjustment with the Triton? And second, how well does the dust port work for chip extraction? I'm looking at the 3 1/4 HP model.
Thanks
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wrote in message

The fine tune adjustment is very easy to use providing you have access to the router under the table and you mount the router with the adjustment knob on the front side. Like a typical plunge router it has a lock lever to lock the height setting in any position. You release that lever, IIRC it is adjustable to most any position, turn the coarse handle for fast adjustments, and then turn the fine tune knob for zeroing in on the final adjustment. You can use the fine adjustment knob to move the router through out the whole distance that the motor will travel, so it does not reach a limit similar to the limits of the fine tune knob on the Bosch 1617 fixed base router. I have that router also.
I have never used the router as a hand held. It is always hanging under the table and I use the dust port built into the fence for collection.
I have the bigger model and bought it when it was originally in the $300 range and was the only Triton router choice and do not regret paying more.
A couple of things to consider but keep in mind I am not one that really cares about how a tool looks so much as how well it performs. I am going to sound critical here but I am not saying this to scare you away.
My router was and I suspect that they continue to be made in China. Like the complaints about cheap materials appearance used for the interiors of some cars the Triton plastic looks cheap. Does this affect anything at all, NO. The metal parts look like you would expect from any brand.
The fine adjustment knob has a bit of play. The bit height is not immediately affected by the initial movement of the knob. Keep in mind that the bit height does stay consistent once the movement starts but it typically takes about 1/16 of a turn to get the bit moving in either direction. Not a problem with me as the knob still allows accurate adjustments. IIRC a full turn moves the bit about 1/16", and about 2 full turns of the coarse adjustment handle/knob to go from full up to full down and visa versa.
The collet is a very quick release and tighten design. From fully tight to fully loose, enough for the bit to come out, is about 1/8" turn so leverage will be your friend. The threads are more coarse than those on most routers. I am not a fan of lock shaft routers as I prefer to work two wrenches against each other to loosen or tighten the collet, however with the lock shaft on the Triton it is much easier to remove the bit from above the table with 1 wrench above the table. You do not have to hold a lock to lock the shaft. A safety feature requires the router to be turned off to raise/lower the router enough to loosen the collet and this same feature automatically locks the shaft when the collet is in the bit removal position. Moving the bit back to an operating spot automatically unlocks the shaft and allows you to turn the router back on.
Would I buy it again? Yes but I would take a look at the offerings again and only change brands if I found something better.
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This bother me a bit. Do you feel some resistance when the bit starts moving? If not, then adjusting the bit would be solely a visual adjustment and that can lead to errors.

Well, so far in my search, I haven't found anything better. I'm not as concerned with price as I am with machined quality.
Thanks for the critique.
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wrote in message

Really no more so than when you start turning the knob. Absolutely the adjustment is visual if you need to be more accurate than 1/128" and could lead to errors if you absolutely insist on depending on the turn of the knob to indicate an exact movement. Does this keep you from making accurate adjustments NO. Like finishes I never experiment with a setting on the actual project pieces. Because it takes more time to zero the bit and make some calculated adjustment from there vs. simply eye balling every result of an adjustment on a scrap I have never depended on an exact movement when turning the knob. Even if the adjustment could be that accurate I would still run a test piece to verify "I" did not make an adjustment mistake. I have always viewed the bit height adjustment as being similar to setting the rip fence on my TS. I look at the indicator on the fence to locate the fence, I look at the bit height to set the height. If I do a particular set up often I will keep scraps to use as set up blocks. YMMV
Having said this I have used plunge routers for many years in a router table set up. Fine adjustments were a real hassle as the next adjustment might be "much" farther off than the previous adjustment. At least with the Triton each adjustment can be minute and always closer to the desired setting. You can get very close to a mark on the wood with the coarse adjustment, the fine adjustment knob will zero in on that mark pretty accurately visually, close enough that bit chatter would probably enter more error into the mix.
In your case you may have different needs and depending on an exact movement in relation to a given amount of the turn of the knob may be a necessity given your circumstances. You may not have the luxury of achieving the same results using a differnt method.
If you need the dial adjustment accuracy I would suggest a fixed base router and after market precision mechanical lift combination. The draw back there is that you can expect to spend in the $400 range for the lift alone. If you are a big fan of the "Incra" style TS rip fences and the way they adjust, the seperate lift may be the better choice.

It was my pleasure. While I consider the Triton to be a fine tool it certainly does not follow the leader or focus on achieving results in the same way that many would expect. I just wanted you to be aware of those differences. While it is always a hassle to return something, Woodcraft has a return policy of 90 days IIRC, no questions asked so you are not locked in to a purchase that you might determine to be short of your requirements or expectations.
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One other question. Did you remove the springs from the plunge mechanism for use in the table?
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