PVC or Metal Dust collection???

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Ben, please post a follow-up review when completed. I have put on hold the purchase of a 1HP Delta DC system. In the meantime I have purchased a Ridgid shop vacuum, a 6hp with 2 hose. I may go with a cyclone lid as an alternative to the DC. I have read too many so so reviews concerning a 1HP DC and I can't afford a 1 or 2 HP unit. These bigger units also take up more room. The 1HP is just the right size for my shop, so I'm VERY interested in your follow-up
Thanks, Daniel

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On 7 Jan 2004 07:49:38 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Daniel Martin) wrote:

I don't think you should put your system on hold. There is no comparison between a shop vac and a DC, even a 1 HP one (and you are very optimistic if you think that Ridgid has any more than about 1 HP itself). The DC is MUCH quieter than the shop vac, and it will be much more efficient in the collection of chips, particularly with a planer or a jointer.
I have a Jet DC-650, and while I'd love to have a cyclone system which pretty much needs a bigger DC, it does a perfectly fine job. If you were to be satisfied with wheeling it around from machine to machine, you'd never need anything more.
In my old shop I plumbed the jointer, table saw, bandsaw, and planer with a combination of flex hose and snap-lock metal pipe. I also put in a garbage can cyclone. I would put the garbage can cyclone at the top of the list of things to incorporate. It was VERY effective, and much more pleasant to empty than the lower bag of the DC. I probably was able to get about a 10 to 1 ratio of emptying the respective containers.
My system worked pretty well. Oh, the plastic gates sucked (sorry), but everyone knows about them anyway. There is a modification you can do that supposedly helps, but I never got around to it before I had to take down the shop. I could have gone around and improved some other leaks, too (particularly around the garbage can lid) but I didn't and it still did a pretty fair job; about 25' of flex and another 10' of pipe.
I was fortunate in that the shop layout was quite convenient for connecting the tools I mentioned; my current shop might not be, and I'm not sure how I'm going to resolve things, but I think I'll probably stick with the '650 for a while. Maybe I'll engineer a roll around base for it and the garbage can; I don't want to give that up.
Two things that were a disappointment: one was that the DC just didn't do a very good job when I connected my PC 333 ROS to it. The sander really needs the higher velocity air of the shop vac. Two was I never got around to fitting the system to the router table; that could really use some help. Neither of those problems were the fault of the Jet.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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(Daniel

I agree wholeheartedly with Rod. I tried my DW planer with the 5HP(right!) Shop Vac, then got the Griz G8027 1HP collector and a garbage can *cyclone*. What a difference! Don't have the shop plumbed, just use flex hose, primarily for jointer & planer.
Nahmie
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I think you mean the higher static pressure of the shop vac. I highly doubt a shop vac has a higher CFM than a DC.
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Keep it to Usenet please wrote:
snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com>,

Your right, the DC does have a higher CFM than the shop-vac BUT the shop-vac moves a lot less air a lot faster (higher velocity, lower CFM).
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Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:19:11 GMT, Keep it to Usenet please

You're probably right. I'm not on good terms with the arcane language of moving air. "Static" and "velocity" just seem mutually exclusive to me.
Nonetheless, the DC is for shit with the sander; the shop vac works fine. Let's just say I don't know why.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
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Quick primer:
Velocity depends on pressure differential (suckage) and flow resistance (pipe size, bends, smoothness of pipe walls, etc).
CFM is velocity times cross section area of the flow conduit. CFM is a measure of the volume of air moved under a given load (resistance). You get the most CFM at no load, since you get highest velocity then.
Static pressure is the maximum pressure differential under infinite load (resistance).
When figuring out how useful a given vacuum will be, you need to consider a few things:
* Dust remains suspended at a given air velocity. To work, you need to keep the velocity at or above this.
* CFM for a given collection area. Larger areas (sanding tables, lathe hoods) require more CFM, as larger areas reduce velocity.
* Excess static pressure compensates for losses along the conduit, allowing you sufficient static pressure at the outlet to create the CFM you need.
Now consider the motor. It runs at a given speed with a given pump, which limits CFM. But the engineering of the motor/pump determines how hard it can pull when the air is blocked. A rotary vane pump can get you to nearly 29 inches of vacuum at very low CFM. A 20" box fan can get lots of CFM with little static pressure.
So, a shopvac works as long as the collection area (and hose diameter) are small enough. Also, a shopvac will continue sucking even under heavy loads (I've pumped water through the 2.5" hose with mine - 16 gal in about 10 seconds :). A DC, however, will work with much larger hoses and collection areas, but it won't work as well at sucking up bowling balls and other larger items.
At least, that's the theory.
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Thanks.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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Dainel,
I sure will post a follow up and some Pictures on the Pics newsgroup. I can already tell you the DC without ducting is amazing. Lot's quiter.

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Ben wrote:

Duh, obviously. )Wrap a ground wire around it on the outside or better still have a wire run down the inside in a manner that wont catch the wood chips. This will catch the not so static charges the can build up on one end or the other. Try a belt sander connected to a shop vac and you will get a shock. But I think some vacs have conductive hoses now.
John
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