PVC or Metal Dust collection???

Hello all. Well i'm going to ask a question tat I know has been around but I'd like to see if there are any new opinions.

Should I use PVC or Metal ducting for my shop dust collection. And has anyone used the longranger automatic blast gates from Penn State Industies?

Here's my situation. Small shop, about 15 x 14. I want to hook up my miter saw, TS, Router Table and have a couple of optional hookups for thing like sanding and my Drill press. I just got a small 1hp Delta DC. Didn't see the need for much more. I'll only be running one tool at a time.

I've read all the pros and cons about PVC and Metal ducting. PVC cheap but Grounding?? Metal no grounding. So what should I use? I would like to us PVC. What about a mixture of both.

And I want to use the Longranger automatic bast gates. Are they any good. Just seems like it would make life easy.

I'll post some pictures when its all set up.

Thanks

Reply to
Ben
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|Hello all. Well i'm going to ask a question tat I know has been around but |I'd like to see if there are any new opinions. | |Should I use PVC or Metal ducting for my shop dust collection. And has |anyone used the longranger automatic blast gates from Penn State Industies? | |Here's my situation. Small shop, about 15 x 14. I want to hook up my miter |saw, TS, Router Table and have a couple of optional hookups for thing like |sanding and my Drill press. I just got a small 1hp Delta DC. Didn't see the |need for much more. I'll only be running one tool at a time. | |I've read all the pros and cons about PVC and Metal ducting. PVC cheap but |Grounding?? Metal no grounding. So what should I use? I would like to us |PVC. What about a mixture of both.

My Jet DC-1100 is somewhere between Tool Crib and my house. When it gets here, I'm plumbing with 4" PVC drainpipe. Four-inch metal vent pipe is about twice the cost, which is reasonable, but the fittings, tees, elbows, etc are outrageous.

FWW Magazine No. 153 had an article on the static discharge concerns with plastic pipe. Bottom line, it isn't a concern. Creating sparks by metal-to-metal contact in a pile of saw dust is more of a concern.

Reply to
Wes Stewart

Why will it need to be grounded?

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

This issue is fueled by lots of emotion and little rational thought.

I maintain that expolding PVC dust collectors, and 'grounding' of PVC is an urban myth with no basis in fact.

Nobody can provide a firsthand evidence of any such event, although those who hold a low credibility threshold can recite stories from a brother in laws cousin who overheard a conversation at AA.

What I find absurd is the thought that you can ground PVC. PVC is an insulator. You cannot ground an insulator. Do you bother grounding the wire insulation in your shop? No, because you already know you cannot ground an insulator.

The biggest danger of fire a dust collection system poses is hitting a nail with your table saw or other power tool and having the hot metal fragment(s)smoulder in the dust bin. If you are concerned about fire danger you will empty our dust collection system every time you knock off for the day.

I would be happy to be proven wrong. But you will not prove me wrong with a strongly opinionated post or with fourth hand anecdotes.

Reply to
ahood

Some people complain about the static buildup. I tell them to do the same thing with the static from the DC as they do with the static from their wife, kids, dog, cat, etc, during the winter heating months. They must do something. Do the same thing.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

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Reply to
LRod

To the OP; Pay no attention to what those other guys are saying. Insulator Schminsulator. Contrary to what these know-it-all types tell you, for less than 20 bucks and a couple of hours of your time, you _can_ ground your PVC duct work.

You'll need: Box of #10 rubber bands. SillyPutty, in assorted colors (The starter 6-pack set works fine, you won't need much.)

1 2-foot long piece of 1/2" PVC. 1 Pair pantyhose.

1.) Tie several dozen rubber bands together. Don't cut them and tie them together, loop each one through the next so that your final rope of rubber bands has a loop at each end. Don't fark this up. The loops are critical.

2.) Attach one end to your PVC ductwork with the SillyPutty. Now you see why you need the loop. SillyPutty isn't worth a damn at securing a single string, but with a loop in the end the SillyPutty will have more grabbinessability to really hold that rubber to the PVC. I recommend the yellow SillyPutty, others swear by the green. You may find the red works best in your application. Whichever one you find works best for you, be sure to post pictures on ABPW.

3.) Bang a 2-foot long piece of 1/2 inch PVC pipe into the ground, preferably as close to your compost pile as possible. The nitrogen in the compost helps attract the stray electrons that are about to be ionized. (I'll explain the how of this in another post, it's beyond the scope of this one.) Attach the other end of your rubber band line to the PVC. Since SillyPutty isn't waterproof, you'll need to secure this end, (the "compost" end) to the PVC pipe by running one leg of the pantyhose through the loop in the rubber band. Run it up to the crotch. Run it up to the crotch. I liked the way that sounded so I said it twice, but you only have to do it once. No extra electrical discharge will occur by running it up to the crotch more than once. Finally, wrap each leg of the pantyhose around the PVC pipe several times and then tie the legs together securely, squeezing the rubber band as hard as possible to the PVC pipe. The more tightly you squeeze the rubber band to the PVC pipe, the more Ohms your electrons can amp down into the ground on their way to the compost pile.

Although bare-bones in nature this is, in essence, a perfectly grounded PVC system! Don't be too concerned if you don't have a compost pile. The nitrogen ionic voltage transfer won't be as efficient without one, but your grounding system will still work just as well as if you did nothing at all. And remember...

post pictures.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Baglio

Having just gone through this 8 months ago, I'm pretty well informed. Oh boy, here we go. First, if someone talks about grounding PVC, they don't know anything about electricity, as you can't ground a non-conductive surface. So all "grounding" PVC does is empty your wallet and clog your pipes.

2nd, you'll hear claims that static discharge is an explosion hazard, even though nobody can find one single source of STATIC causing an explosion. You'll hear all sorts of claims, but when you dig deep into them, you'll find that it wasn't static at all that caused the fire, but something else.

You'll also hear claims that you NEED to buy that expensive spiral pipe, because a home dust collector will collapse the cheap snaplock pipe that the Borg sells. Poppycock. It doesn't even come close to collapsing. I have the Jet 1100 and it works great with the cheap stuff you buy for $6 for 6'.

Now, I chose the snaplock metal pipe because it's light, easy to work with, and I ended up fabricating my own Y's. Don't blow your money on $30 Y pipes. It's ridiculous for what they get for those. I used 6" for my my line, and fabricated 6x6x4" Ys for each machine, using a manual aluminum blast gate.

In addition, using the metal pipe allows you to use those great adjustable elbows that the borg sells as well. You don't want to elbow anything to a 90 deg angle, you want to keep all bends to 45 degrees. Tape it all up with aluminum tape, and you'll have a solid dust collection system.

Reply to
Larry Bud

You really don't know what you're talking about. There's no such thing as grounding a non-conductive surface. You can make yourself believe that you're doing such a thing, but you're not. If it were true, we wouldn't have such basic electronic components as a capacitor.

Reply to
Larry Bud

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Larry Bud) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

You fell for it!

LOL

Reply to
Han

You've obviously never been around my wife in the winter...uh, never mind.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

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Reply to
LRod

I don't think you should put your system on hold. There is no comparison between a shop vac and a DC, even a 1 HP one (and you are very optimistic if you think that Ridgid has any more than about 1 HP itself). The DC is MUCH quieter than the shop vac, and it will be much more efficient in the collection of chips, particularly with a planer or a jointer.

I have a Jet DC-650, and while I'd love to have a cyclone system which pretty much needs a bigger DC, it does a perfectly fine job. If you were to be satisfied with wheeling it around from machine to machine, you'd never need anything more.

In my old shop I plumbed the jointer, table saw, bandsaw, and planer with a combination of flex hose and snap-lock metal pipe. I also put in a garbage can cyclone. I would put the garbage can cyclone at the top of the list of things to incorporate. It was VERY effective, and much more pleasant to empty than the lower bag of the DC. I probably was able to get about a 10 to 1 ratio of emptying the respective containers.

My system worked pretty well. Oh, the plastic gates sucked (sorry), but everyone knows about them anyway. There is a modification you can do that supposedly helps, but I never got around to it before I had to take down the shop. I could have gone around and improved some other leaks, too (particularly around the garbage can lid) but I didn't and it still did a pretty fair job; about 25' of flex and another 10' of pipe.

I was fortunate in that the shop layout was quite convenient for connecting the tools I mentioned; my current shop might not be, and I'm not sure how I'm going to resolve things, but I think I'll probably stick with the '650 for a while. Maybe I'll engineer a roll around base for it and the garbage can; I don't want to give that up.

Two things that were a disappointment: one was that the DC just didn't do a very good job when I connected my PC 333 ROS to it. The sander really needs the higher velocity air of the shop vac. Two was I never got around to fitting the system to the router table; that could really use some help. Neither of those problems were the fault of the Jet.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

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Reply to
LRod

Thanks Michael, I'm still looking for the silly putty.

Daniel

Reply to
Daniel Martin

Ben, please post a follow-up review when completed. I have put on hold the purchase of a 1HP Delta DC system. In the meantime I have purchased a Ridgid shop vacuum, a 6hp with 2½ hose. I may go with a cyclone lid as an alternative to the DC. I have read too many so so reviews concerning a 1HP DC and I can't afford a 1½ or 2 HP unit. These bigger units also take up more room. The 1HP is just the right size for my shop, so I'm VERY interested in your follow-up

Thanks, Daniel

Reply to
Daniel Martin

I agree wholeheartedly with Rod. I tried my DW planer with the 5HP(right!) Shop Vac, then got the Griz G8027 1HP collector and a garbage can *cyclone*. What a difference! Don't have the shop plumbed, just use flex hose, primarily for jointer & planer.

Nahmie

Reply to
Norman D. Crow

When people talk about grounding pvc, it is sort of an expression. ( Duh, obviously. )Wrap a ground wire around it on the outside or better still have a wire run down the inside in a manner that wont catch the wood chips. This will catch the not so static charges the can build up on one end or the other. Try a belt sander connected to a shop vac and you will get a shock. But I think some vacs have conductive hoses now.

John

Reply to
Eddie Munster

Dainel,

I sure will post a follow up and some Pictures on the Pics newsgroup. I can already tell you the DC without ducting is amazing. Lot's quiter.

Reply to
Ben

I think you mean the higher static pressure of the shop vac. I highly doubt a shop vac has a higher CFM than a DC.

Reply to
Keep it to Usenet please

Almost correct. Two 45's will have the same resistance as a single 90 with the same bend radius. The issue is really long radius vs. short radius. If you mean "don't make more than a 45 degree bend with one adjustable elbow" or "use two elbows to make a 90 degree bend" then you're correct.

Reply to
Keep it to Usenet please

Somebody get the pliers, this hook's in deep :-)

Reply to
Donnie Vazquez

snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

Your right, the DC does have a higher CFM than the shop-vac BUT the shop-vac moves a lot less air a lot faster (higher velocity, lower CFM).

Reply to
Donnie Vazquez

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