Printing Full Size Drawings

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Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:17am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (FerdFarkel) doth sayeth: <snip> Butcher paper and #2 pencil inspire creativity better and will never go obsolete.
Totally agree. Except I seldom use butcher paper. And I use the inexpensive plastic Pentel type mechanical pencils - about 10-12 for just a buck or two. Paper and pencil do seem to make the mind more creative somehow.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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J T wrote:

Yeah, the mechanics of the software get in the way unless you've been using it so long that it's transparent to you.
Now if you want to see something really cool try Corel Painter with Wacom Cintiq. But you can buy a lot of paper and pencils for the price of that setup.
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On Sep 30, 3:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Easier to convey a sense of space and weight with a pencil than a monitor. CAD is unbeatable for precision, but precision is unnecessary (and a drag) for design work.

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Kinko's, Office Depot, some Staples are all places you can go but you will be paying almost twice as much as a blueprinter that architects, engineers & contractors go to. I am not saying to get blueprints since nobody in the construction industry uses them anymore, except maybe an old architect. You can also save your drawing in .pdf and .plt formats as well as .dxf and .dwg.
As for using a printer to "scale" your drawing, not a good idea. most all printers will not scale it accurately. Just try it and measure the output yourself. At least Autocad can scale 1:1, 1:2 or any other scale whether it is architectural or engineering. I am sure you know this but when we have to scale any engineering drawings we do it X12. But when the engineer gets them back they can't seem to figure out how to turn them back (1/12)
Pen Plotters: Ha!! If you do have access to one of these dinosaurs keep in mind it could take and hour or more to plot out your drawing, depending on how many layers you have versus the new plotters they have now, which any blueprinter should have which may take 2 minutes to plot.
As previously mentioned, check out the yellow pages, call the blueprinter, find out if you can email your drawing to them and it will be printed out before you arrive or you can put it on a disc in any of the formats mentioned above and wait maybe 5 minutes.
The only time I knew of someone going to Kinkos for a copy (8.5x11 or drawing size) is because it is late and the blueprinter has already closed for the night and they absolutely positively have to get their copies tonight.
Hope this helps.
Dave FL
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Mon, Oct 1, 2007, 4:39am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Dave) doth sayeth: <snip> As for using a printer to "scale" your drawing, not a good idea. most all printers will not scale it accurately. <snip>
That just struck my eye. I've got a lot of books on building things, steam engines, internal combustion engines, boats, etc., with plans in them. These are books from around 1900 to the present. One of the most recent acquisitions, Model Marine Steam, has plans for a two-cylinder, double-acting, oscillating steam engine, meant to run in a model boat. The plans take up a whole two pages. LOL Kinda funny how something you'd usually think of as quite complicated would only have a two page plan, and some wood projects take up a whole book to tell you how to make them. But, I digress. NONE of the plans in these books are to scale (how could they be?, the largest books are about 8" X 10 1/2") and the later books anyway, often clearly state on the plan pages, NOT TO SCALE.
JOAT "I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth." "Really? Why not?" "I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
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"Dave" wrote in message
First off ... excellent, nice to know info on the other methods, BTW.
Thanks!

That is surely true ... but, for most old country boys there's usually more than one way to skin a particular cat. :)
So, just in case someone hasn't figured it out:
I've used a CAD program (AutoSketch and its predecessor), along with a series of cheap ink jet printers down through the years, to print, to scale, small parts (less than 14" or so) for use as templates, with accurate results.
As an example, below is a photo of the legal size printout (on a rather cheap HP 5510 printer) of the curved chair rail template that I used to make a batch of 7 identical chairs, with a ruler laying on top as "the judge".
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/12.5template.JPG
(It's a cheap digital camera, so if you zoom in, be careful that the distortion/parallax of the camera lens on the "0" ruler edge and "12.5" marks doesn't fool you ... take a look at the 6 1/4" mark on the ruler instead, to get a better idea of the accuracy)

Bingo! ... On one printer I no longer use, I had to use a scale of 1" : .995" in the CAD program, arrived at by trial and error, to get a "scale" drawing to print out accurately on legal size paper. (I should have mentioned that fact in the original post).
On the HP5510 I now use as a shop printer, a 1":1" scale has worked fine ... thus far.
IOW, if you're determined and have no other tools at hand, you can get excellent results ... AAMOF, I don't think I can cut to the approximately 1/128" error that showed on that particular ruler in the photo, in any event.
On my "project tape measure", you could not see/measure any error on the parts cut.
But you're right, you can't just take it for granted, you must measure to make sure it suits your purpose.
A caveat: I always use legal size paper when doing this, and if you change paper size I suspect you better double check/adjust the scale again.
I mention the above, because when the need arises to cut out identical small parts as accurately as possible, this is a good step/method to know, at least its worked for me.
Now, not only do we need to use the same tape measure throughout a project, we need to calibrate it, our CAD programs, AND our printers. :)
as always YMMV ...
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On Oct 1, 6:33 pm, "Swingman" wrote: <snip> As an example, below is a photo of the legal size printout (on a rather

There you go trying to prove me wrong. When printing directly from the cad program it should come out to scale if you set it properly. If you take an 11x17 (or other size) and try to scale it down using just a copier is when we start screwing up the scale.
<snip>

OK, I have tried but still am unable to calibrate my tape measure.
I totally agree that we need to use the same tape measure, no matter if it is a small job or taking as built dimensions of a building.
Dave
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"Dave" wrote:

make
judge". <snip>

Nope ... went to pains to NOT do that ... a shame you took it that way.

LOL, I would have sworn that was EXACTLY my point ... oh well, never mind, I'm sure someone will find the information useful at some point in their woodworking.
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On Oct 2, 11:19 am, "Swingman" wrote:

I didn't take it that way, Sorry if it came out like that.

I agree totally but, I am still trying to figure out how too calibrate my tape measure, LOL
Dave
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"Dave" wrote in message

Use it as the "master" to calibrate _to_ ... <G>
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Use the calibration tab on the end. Once you get it right, smack it with a hammer so it stays in place.
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I had a class once that taught how to calibrate tape measurements. It took tension (geometry of the tape between two points - centenary function), temperature for various expansion rates for different tape materials, altitude, humidity and a few other things I've forgotten. This was before the electronic calculator and the slide rule was not accurate enough, so it took some time to come up with the correction factor. Now you could just point and shoot by laser instaneously within an accuracy of 1/8" over 300 yards!
In any case all our drawings were to scale from the plotter so you could scale it as the contractors, engineers and architects often do, but not recommended.
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