OT: Carbon credits

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Al Gore has stated that he bought carbon credits to offset the energy consumption of his house. Near as I know, there is no requirement (yet) to buy these carbon credits, no issuing agency and, near as I know, no regulation as to what they are or where the money goes. It would appear that, under the circumstances, anybody with a printer and a little design skill could print up a few million of these things and get rich selling them to those that feel that throwing their money away somehow offsets their sins against the environment with the only real result being adding to the wealth of the issuing company. Kind of like a televangelist. "Send me your money and God will love you for it". The only "love" in the business is the televangelist "loving" the fact that people are so gullible as to send him their money.
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It's even better when you buy the carbon credits from yourself. Even a televangelist doesn't benefit from sending himself money.
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On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:51:43 -0800 (PST), the infamous

FugAlGore.
I paid $3 for 247,619,423.6 carbon credits. That's the quantity I figure I've saved since 1970.
www.FreeCarbonOffsets.com has the templates. Mine's framed and on the wall.
-- We rightly care about the environment. But our neurotic obsession with carbon betrays an inability to distinguish between pollution and the stuff of life itself. --Bret Stephens, WSJ 1/5/10
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Great idea! Then use all that collected money to buy a 50-foot boat with twin V-12 Lambourghini enigines....
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wrote:

I was thinking of expanding my Harley collection.
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On 1/8/2010 11:49 AM, CW wrote:

Too late, dude ... Leon gave me this a couple of years ago in honor of Big Al and his Nobel bauble:
http://e-woodshop.net/files/proud-brazilianholder.pdf
Like Uriah Heep, I was indeed humbled by the honor ... :)
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Awwww. You remembered..... wiping something from my eye.... Not a tear. ;~)
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CW wrote:

Why pay?
http://freecarbonoffsets.com /
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Seeing as someone is giving them away, I guess I'll just have to go back to printing money. People will give you lots of stuff for that.
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wrote:

It's better than that. He bought the carbon offsets from an eco-company that he happens to own. i.e., he paid himself. Kind of like you putting $20 in the nightstand to pay for spending the night in your own bed.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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It's beyond me why his supporters dont see him for what he is.
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wrote:

It's possible that some people would rather we do the right thing for the wrong reasons than not at all.
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Revivul wrote:

So what, exactly, is "the right thing"? According to Copenhagen it's paying trillions of dollars of tribute to the world's largest polluter.
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On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:23:08 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Reduce our dependence on fossil fuel ... dramatically.
It's a finite commodity controlled by unstable regimes.
Its pollution causes big respiratory issues and decreased productivity.
The protection OF it leads to wars and death -- physical AND economic.
There are SO MANY valid reasons to pursue this course (reducing our dependence on it) that it's functionally irrelevant whether or not it has any bearing on global climate.
If it does ... it's just gravy.
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On 1/9/2010 12:04 PM, Revivul wrote:

Despite constant scare rhetoric, there is more than enough provable reserves in, and off, NA to last well into the next century providing the envirowackos would STFU.

Noble sentiment ... now let us know when YOU have your electricity permanently turned off and have sold your car(s), never to be used by you again, have built your own shelter, made your own clothes, and killed all the food to feed your family, and no, no ... you can't start a fire to stay warm, or cook... that's bad for the environment.
Once you've established all the above as fact, come back and we'll be follow suit, I promise.
Otherwise, can you spell "hypocrite"? To wit: "a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings".
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I presume you don't mean that the reserves are INfinite, right?
Costs? Costs to explore, reach, refine, and deliver to the pump? I've heard that $0.10/gallon increase sucks $17BN out of the economy. What can you tell me about the costs to the consumer of all this incremental reserve?

Thanks. I presume you insist that Bill Gates live in his car before he tries to address the poverty issue?
Somebody needs a course in logic ... and ... it isn't me ;-)
If all you're capable of is black/white, all/nothing, either/or arguments ... it's genuinely better NOT to put ANY argument forward ... lest ... you look ... silly.
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Revivul wrote:

... It's still far cheaper at present than most any alternative--that's why the alternatives are only present when there are artificial price supports or regulatory limitations.
If would simply let market forces work, alternatives will appear as they become economically viable automagically.
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I don't believe we have "let market forces work" since the days of Adam Smith.
Thankfully.
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Revivul wrote:

... and right there you show an ignorance of how the world really works and the balancing effects of market forces. When one points to problems that have occurred throughout recent history, you can pretty much always find a statist intervention that has served as the causitive agent for the disaster that then is blamed on a market run amok (cf Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the CRA -- mandating loans to people with no chance of paying them back).
Even in non-capitalist societies, market forces (that people will almost always act in their own best interest) still always work, but to the detriment of the people in those societies. In those societies, the forces are at their root, survival in that society. So, in a society where the oddball sticks out and is likely to get hammered down hard, those who would be innovators keep their ideas to themselves to avoid that fate. Where everyone gets paid the same, someone who would be motivated to succeed and excel will throttle back their effort to the group average since there is no value to attempting to excel.
Adam Smith did not invent the capitalist society or free market, he merely observed the benefits of such a society because it is fundamentally tied to the human spirit and basic human motivations.
Government should exist to make sure the playing field is not corrupted and to curb dishonest people, not to attempt to guarantee outcomes.

There are lots of societies across the world that practice the kind of control you appear to adore -- I suggest you look at joining one of them
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:04:23 -0700, Mark & Juanita

One day, perhaps you'll do me the honor of explaining just what "kind of control" it is that I adore.
More straw men. Lovely.
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