OT - $4/gal Gas Threshold Crossed - Dam Breaking

Page 2 of 5  


This "ray of hope" I do not understand.....Increased CAFE standards simply mean smaller and/or lighter vehicles...... There is no particular or secret high mileage trick out there just waiting for a Gov. CAFE mandate. Instead what we will get are fewer choices in the market place and most likely price incentives or penalties (as though gas prices aren't incentive enough) to force the market place where it may not wish to go. Vehicles will be less able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in. Certain things may require a forced mandate, as when not doing them provides a competitive advantage for those who don't but better vehicle efficiency can stand on its own merit without Gov. fiat or subsidy. Rod
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

$1.293/litre here in the Toronto Canada area, the dollar is close enough to par to ignore, that works out to approx $4.88/US gallon. I am 6'5" tall and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I can't get comfortable in most of the little shit boxes on the roads these days. I *need* a larger car, only driving a Grand Prix with a 3.8l 6 banger these days, but I at least am comfortable driving it, and the performance for highway driving isn't bad either.
--
Froz...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"FrozenNorth" wrote:

GM goes out of it's way to build IMHO, very difficult vehicles to enter or exit.
FoMoCo seems to be getting the message, based on the last Ford I rented.
The Europeans, especially Volkswagen build comfortable small vehicles.
Owned several for just that reason.
Today, I drive a 4 cyl, 5 spd stick "Tonka Toy".
Don't know why I waited so long to get one.
BTW, 6'-0" but long torso, and 250 lbs presents more than a few challenges to Detroit.
IMHO, the last Detroit vehicle worth a hoot was my 65 Galaxy 500, 4 dr hard top.
It's been all down hill since.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Comfortable yes, expensive and undependable, absolutely. At least that was the way it was for our purchased new 1999 and 2000 VW's with less than 17K and 40K respectively.

Foreigh I have owned, Isuzu, Acura, VW, Honda, and Toyota. The VW's were constantly in the shop.

IMHO the 70 & 71's were the last decent years.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

I was 10 in 1970, so that generation of cars was getting a bit old before I was driving age.
--
Froz...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:13:03 -0500, "Leon"

I've *loved* my Toyotas, Subarus, and Hondas! All made in the USA, too.
I've heard some VW horrors, as well. However, no VW could possibly compete with my Jeeps for shop time... <G>
I think I have my wife headed towards a MINI Clubman in '09 or '10 to replace the '99 Wrangler.
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

My son has stepped in my shoes for car enthusiast. He has read that the MINI is one of the most economical to operate and maintain. Pretty reliable IIRC.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:58:30 -0500, "Leon"

The Cooper is too small for my wife's teaching "work wagon" she carts back and forth every day, but the Clubman is about a foot longer, with all the cool features of the Cooper intact.
Your son should see the Coopers whip around Lime Rock Park. <G>
<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYQYbH0Bdw&mode=related&search=

Check out the air he catches ~ 00:59, you'll hear it in the RPM's. I also like the Porsche waving him by... <G>
I've had the good fortune to do some Skip Barber class days @ LRP, given as a gift, it's really fun!
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thems not 'real' Cooper S's. <EG> Fast and fun, no doubt, but expensive FRAUDS!!!...LOL ( I paid $ 800.00 for a 1275 S engine with a Weber on it)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:56:29 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

They run THOSE on Vintage Weekend in September!
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I had, at one time, 5 (five) Minis ( parts for 8) My one Cooper S had 5 different colour doors/boot/fenders etc. I loved that car. I spent a part of my student loan on Mini-Lite wheels. I always carried a spare fuel pump, fan belt and tool kit. I knew that thing inside-out. Great fun blowing people away at traffic lights. I got to know the look of Camaro grilles by seeing them in my rear-view mirrors. Eventually, they'd catch me, because they had the cubes, but what a laugh.
Great mileage too.
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 20:22:20 GMT, FrozenNorth

A mid-60's VW bug would be fine - you're one of the few who could reach the pedals with the seat all the way back ;-)
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
John wrote:

A buddy had one, but that was a pain in winter, in Canada, having to scrape the inside of the windshield while driving.
--
Froz...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:22:36 GMT, FrozenNorth

As much as I liked mine, that was also a pain in Connecticut. I can only imagine that car in Canada! <G>
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

CAFE has been the law since 1975. All that is changing is the mileage target, which was frozen at 27.5 MPG in 1990, up from 18 mpg in 1978.
Light trucks, which includes most SUVs, also have a CAFE standard but it is different from the one for passenger cars.
If you are opposed to CAFE, well, that ship has sailed.
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 13:05:50 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"

My new truck is much easier on my herniated disk than my wife's Camry - and the grab handles are better located. The mileage isn't record-breaking at 21 city, 24+ highway with an automatic, but not bad for a vehicle that can carry a 1300lb payload or pull a 3500lb trailer.
Gas prices in the suburbs on the west side of Atlanta are about $3.88/gallon today, with downtown Atlanta prices about $4.09/gallon.
For possible alternative near-future vehicles, look at some of the contenders for the Automotive X-Prize, a $10 million competition for fuel efficient vehicles: http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4261425.html?series 
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

Have you ever tried a Toyota Matrix? Lots of head and leg room. My father-in-law recently had hip surgery and he figures the back seat of our Matrix is the easiest thing around for him to get in/out.
Chris
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Friesen wrote:

At least buy the Pontiac Vibe then, same thing but it has to help somehow.
--
Froz...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:26:33 -0600, Chris Friesen

A buddy of mine has one, and it's been a great daily driving, runaround car. He doesn't have the 4WD version, but he still likes the way it goes in snow. This guy gets tired of cars fast, and he's kept the Matrix longer than anything I remember.
The sister Pontiac Vibe can sometimes be purchased for less, and it's made in the same building as my Toyota Tacoma in Fremont, CA. I believe the Matrix is built in Canada.
--------------------------------------------- ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html ** ---------------------------------------------
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

I don't think "The Market" should dictate EVERYTHING. "The Market" is driven by MONEY - and has a very. very short term and very narrow view of things. And money has no loyalty to anyone or anything. Most significant, it has no morals, no scruples, no ethics, no "human values".
In the early 70s, when the first Arab Oil Embargo took place, and gas lines formed and we had "Alternate Days" gas rationing - though it was never called "gas rationing" - and "Detroit" kept insisting THEY COULD NOT make energy efficient automobiles - AND make a profit, and continue to insist they "just made was Americans wanted" - ven though they spent hundreds of millions in advertising to persuade US consumers they "needed and wanted" BIG, HEAVY, AMERICAN (the Stars and Stripes waving in the back ground).
"Detroit" got it's ass kicked - by "little cheap Japanese" cars. They HAD well over 95% of the US auto market - and they blew it. Their response - the Chevy Nova, the Ford Pinto - neither very good products and not competative in price or performance with those "little cheap Japanese" cars.
Took them a while, but Lee Iacocca came up with the mini-van, which let Chrysler, and then the other US Auto Makers cling to their old ways - by slapping a new body style - on a TRUCK.
And while that slowed the slide, the slide continued - and while "Detroit's" repackaging once again of what is basically a truck - the Sport Utility Vehicle - the Hummer being the poster child for "We STILL Don't Get It" - allowed them to continue to tread water - they're going to go the way of the dinosaur - not because US Auto Workers can't compete - if they have the products to make - and the tooling to do it.

Let's get real here. An overwhelming majority of big powerful vehicles - with four wheel drive - NEVER leave the road. And IF 10% of the trucks sold EVER carry a load of wood, or rocks or hay or manure, or tow a trailer on a semi regular basis I'd be astounded. If you need to haul a bunch of stuff or a heavy load - on those four or five occassions a year - RENT A PHREAKIN' Stake Side - with a lift or ramp.
OK - so lets trot out The Farmers and The Ranchers - they NEED a Real Truck - which is the arguement "Detroit" made to keep the CAFE Standards where they've been - for 30 phreakin' years. Well heads up folks - the family run farm or ranch is becoming a fond memory, replaced by AgriBusiness which doesn't use consumer "pick up trucks" because they're to limited in capabilities and carrying capacity.

Tried getting UP into the SUVs out there today? Or into and out of most of the cars out there - "Detroit" models or any of the host of other passenger cars out there? This has nothing to do with Energy Efficiency.

When "The Cheap Imports" started kicking "Detroit's" ass - it was "Detroit" that begged and pleaded - and got - Federal Excise Taxes on "imports". There was no mention of "let the free market" decide things.
The Japanese - and the Germans - didn't have ANY competative advantage over US Auto Makers when they entered this market. In fact they were at a significant disadvantage. BUT - they had a better product - and US consumers confirmed THAT with their auto purchases.
There is a HUGE "Green" market developing - and we are going to be dragged kicking and screaming - into the 21st Century - like it or not.
Those who do not study history are condemnd to relive it - over and over and over again.
charlie b
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.