O/T: Welcome To Big Time Politics

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Hello "Ding Dongs", AKA: Recently elected governors of Ohio (Kasich), Wisconsin(Walker) and Florida(Scott).
You don't want high speed rail research projects in your states, no problem.
The money you are rejecting has been committed, so the Feds are simply redirecting your funds to us here in California.
We'll take it
Maybe there are some more governors who don't want high speed rail in their states.
If so, mind telling them we like high speed rail here in California?
We'll accept their money.
Wonder how your decisions will play when you stand for reelection?
Welcome To The World Of Big Time Politics "Ding Dongs".
Lew
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Apparently you folks in California haven't figured out what was pretty obvious to us here in the Midwest: those rail projects might be *built* mostly with federal funds -- but the states would have to pay to *maintain* them, and the states decided they couldn't afford that. It's also apparent that you haven't realized yet that California is broke. News flash: if Wisconsin and Ohio -- which are solvent -- can't afford the maintenance, then California -- which isn't -- can't afford it either.
Let's see how well those decisions play out in a few years when California has to start paying even more money that it doesn't have to maintain these "high-speed" rail lines that really aren't. There is *no* true high-speed rail anywhere in the U.S., and, given the condition of our tracks, there isn't likely to be in my lifetime, either.
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 04:17:47 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

According to Scott, the state might be on the hook for as much as $3B in construction costs, as well.

They'll come whining to the rest of us to bail them out.
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"Doug Miller" wrote:

Spoken like a true Hoosier.
What is your game plan for the operating revenues derived from high speed rail (HSR) once it's built and operating?
What is your game plan for the increased revenues generated by businesses that take advantage of HSR to improve their bottom line?
If they aren't misappropriated, they are the normal source of maintenance funds.
HSR requires a dedicated line to be effective.
Probably will be able to use a some of the existing rights of way in urban areas for new track, but that is about it.
BUilding new rail lines is just part of the capital investment process. (Think bonds).
As far as the USA's including California's current economic condition, consider it a minor inconvenience, especially for those that get up off their dead and dying and get involved in the future.
Energy costs will determine are future.
Those who control energy will control the world.
Yes, $10/gallon gasoline is on the horizon, unless we as a country invest in developing alternatives today.
HSR, high efficiency energy devices, alternate energy forms, increased availability of higher education, improved medical care delivered more efficiently and effectively are all items that will get us back on track as well as address the world's carbon foot print problem in the process.
Failure to grab the moment is analogous to eating one's seed corn, IMHO.
Lew
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Ad hominem noted.

Why are you asking me what *my* game plan is? I'm not the one advocating building it. Direct that question to your governor and legislature. *They* are the ones you should be asking where the money is going to come from to maintain it.

See above.

Assuming that the revenue projections haven't been overstated to sell the project, sure. That's a pretty big assumption, though. And that's another question you should be directing to your legislators. Not to me.

One *more* reason that it's not going to be cost-effective.

Yet another reason it's not going to be cost-effective.

Yeah, now *there's* a good idea: an insolvent state going *deeper* into debt to build a project that, on its face, is not commercially viable -- if it were viable, some corporation would have built it already.
Taken a look at California's bond ratings lately? Compare them to Indiana's: S&P triple-A.
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I wrote:

------------------------------ "Doug Miller" responds:

Since you are indicating there is not money available to the states to maintain the system, thought you might know where that income was spent?

Doesn't make any difference what Indiana's bond rating is, the state is too damn cheap to spend any bond money in the first place.
As my mother and father, both native Hoosiers, would say when driving back to Indiana for a family visit from Ohio, "You know when you hit the Ohio/Indiana line, the roads in Indiana are sub standard.
During the thirties when CCC projects were being built, Ohio built roadside rest areas which had well water, a privy, at least one picnic table and refuse containers.
Indiana's roadside rest area consisted of a table, period end of report.
The above references the post WWII era up to about 1955.
By the mid 80's, which is the next time back, nothing had changed if you don't include the interstate construction.
The state highway system still sucked.
That seems to make you happy, so more power to you.
As for me, I expect a little more out of this one way trip called life.
Lew
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Governor Mitch will sell the public asset to private industry, preferably one with foreign ownership.
Hoosiers voted this *&^(&* into office -- twice! Now he's being touted for Presidential candidacy, because he's so "well-connected and best-funded" of the potential candidates. Small wonder.
Some of us weren't fooled the first time, let alone the second.
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said:

privatization (pri-vah-ti-za-shun) (n): meaning to profiteer at the expense of the public.
Dave in Houston
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

You might want to read the Florida governor's letter rejecting the Tampa-Orlando rail project. In it he pointed out:
* Cost overruns, as much as $3 billion, would be borne by Florida * Ridership and revenue have been overestimated for EVERY rail project in the country since time immemorial. For example, proponents claim ridership to be over 3 million annually. The Acela train linking Boston to D.C., and points in between, had 3.2 million passengers in 2010 despite a population eight times larger than the Tampa-Orlano run. * There are more worthy projects. For example, enlarging Florida's ports to be ready for the enhanced Panama Canal shipping. * If, for any reason, (think too expensive) the project has to be shut down, Florida would have to return $2.4 billion to the feds.
You can read his letter at: http://www.flgov.com/2011/02/16/florida-governor-rick-scott-rejects-federal-high-speed-rail /
I'd welcome your comments after you do.
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This is the only thing I agree with that Idiot Kasich about. Rail service would get very little use here. And it was not high speed. 35 MPH with all the stops they planned. You can drive from Columbus to Cincinnati or Cleveland faster.
Mike in Ohio
On 02/16/2011 10:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

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On 2/17/2011 9:15 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:

to drive that it is to take an airplane. I have children that live about 600 miles from us. By the time you drive to the airport, get there two hours before flight time to get your tummy rubbed by security, flight a couple of stretches with the waits in between, find transportation and final get where you are going; You can make the same trip in your car in the same amount of time, FOR LESS MONEY AND HARASSMENT.
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Amen to that. I once had a company that wanted to fly me from Indianapolis to Dayton for a job interview. They were surprised, to say the least, when I said I'd rather drive. That is, until I explained that I lived nearly an hour's drive from the Indy airport, and less than two hours' drive from their site northwest of Dayton. Driving saved them several hundred dollars, and saved me several hours and a lot of hassle.
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Doug Miller wrote:

I'll wager you didn't get the job; too "nonconformist" and too much of a "trouble-maker" for their tastes.
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?

I figure the break even point is five hours driving time. In some cases, even 8 hours driving can be faster than flying.
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Thirty years ago six hours was my "break even" point (at the time, anywhere NE of a line from Washington to Buffalo). The hassle factor at least doubles that, now.
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"Michael Kenefick" wrote:

Is that based on driving St Route 3 (Triple "C"), US 42 or I-71?
Rt 3 and US 42 are no winners.
Lew
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I-71 mostly.
On 02/18/2011 10:24 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

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If it is from the government, it must be FREE! Gullible and California go together well.
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"Leon" wrote:

Where did that come from?
What does FREE! have to do with anything?
Lew
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?

From what a lot of people seem to think. Like in our state, many town wanted to build new schools. They were promoted as being a bargain because "the state pays 85% and we only have to pay 15% of the cost. Like FREE money from the state.
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