New Unisaw on the Way

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On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:38:12 -0400, "Lee Gordon"

Here's to the van holding together!
Is that abandoned car still behind Harris? <G>
Barry
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On 02 Sep 2004 09:06:39 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

about the same time I bought my house my sister bought a truck. she paid about the same amount for her truck as I paid for my house. in the ensuing 4 years the house has easily doubled in value. I wonder what that truck's worth today?
now, given, I bought the house for a song. it was in sad bastard shape and the owner was motivated to sell, and my sister bought a 4 door lifted diesel dodge with alla the toys on it, but....
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) writes:

I paid around that for a 1 ton dually with diesel. It also rarely sees a passenger.
But, it sees driver and three passengers for at least two trips a year. These two trips are at least 5,000 miles.
Brian Elfert
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Swingman wrote:

Hmm. As I recall that was right after the UAW managed to negotiate a 30% increase in pay and benefits over a two year period. I wonder if these things could possibly be related?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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wrote:

That's odd. My local dealers are also web vendors, Coastal Tool and Tools Plus. Both meet or beat Amazon's prices, both continually make money. I don't think either sees anywhere near Tool Crib's volume, Coastal only sells heavy iron in-store.
I guess your local guy is selling enough tools that he didn't need your business. Our local Woodcraft operates like that, but those in the know can get power tools for 20% less 15 minutes away.
FWIW, I bought a DJ-20, on non-X5 closeout, for $1099 from Tools Plus, and I doubt they lost money on it.
Barry
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I bought the Powermatic 60B from Tool Crib via Amazon for $1,016 delivered to my door, actually inside my door. I was in my local dealer's store on Friday. He just got them in, selling for $1,195 plus 5% sales tax, cash and carry. I hate to see the "little man" go under (referring to Alan Jackson tune) but I hate throwing money away even worse.
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Gary wrote:

It's Delta's product, they can charge what they want for it and can put whatever restrictions they want to on their dealers. For it to be "price fixing" Delta, Powermatic, Grizzly, Jet, and everybody else in that market would have to get together and decide to charge the same price for their various saws so that they could all make excess profits and the consumer wouldn't have any choice but to pay the high price or do without.
--
--John
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Yep, NOT price fixing if ONLY Delta does it. For years and years one of the BIG name scuba companies would ONLY sell thru dealers, and the only way you got to be a dealer is to sign an agree that you would NEVER (without the companies approval) sell for less than SRP
Stood up in court a couple times as I recall.
Now, if all the power tool makers got together and set prices for their products so that ALL the 10in cabinet saws sold for the same price everywhere, THAT is price fixing and illegal
John
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 18:45:10 -0400, "J. Clarke"

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A dealer can advertise any price he/she wants to. Delta can't stop anyone from selling or advertising an item at any price or it is price fixing.
Most manufacturers offer dollars to pay for advertising. The money will be withheld if a dealer advertises for less than the MAP price.
Brian Elfert
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I believe price fixing is when manufacturers get together and say all 400# 10 inch saws will cost this much. Delta can refuse to supply people with product if they feel someone is selling for too low. Of course selling for too low is not a sustainable business model. Most folks would not do a Unisaw as a loss leader.

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Jim Behning wrote:

Whilst I agree with you on this the Unisaw has "more or less" remained the same price for at least ten years if not for fifteen. In this case though I think it's been/being subsidized by the cheaper machines in the Delta line. It has not kept up with the rate of inflation.
UA100, who has studied a Unisaw or three...
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Brian Elfert wrote:

Are you still on about this price fixing garbage? Price fixing is a conspiracy between companies. Delta is not "companies" and thus cannot unilaterally engage in price fixing. You have been told this more than once.

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--John
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The only suggestion I have is to check the trunnions before unloading off the truck. The Unisaws tend to have more than their fare share of broken trunnions upon delivery. Checking on the truck will save you having to unload a damaged saw, and save you having to deal with getting it repaired because you are going to refuse shipment.

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wrote:
|Hey all, | |My new (and first) 3 HP Unisaw should be here by Thursday. I got the 50" |commercial Bies. fence. I don't expect any issues or problems assembling or |setting up, but it'd be great to know of tips or tricks any of you have |encountered before I dig in.
I actually wrote the following a few months ago but never posted it. Perhaps it will be useful here:
I used to own a 15-year old Craftsman contractor's saw. With a little adjustment, the blade was parallel with the miter gauge slots, the two open rib cast iron extension wings were perfectly flush with the table top and the arbor run-out, measured at the base of the blade gullets was 0.003". The fence sucked but I learned to compensate and live with it. With only one hp, rip cuts on hardwood were---excuse the pun---hard, but doable. Being completely open, dust was a big annoyance. Nevertheless, using the saw I built a 1200 sq ft addition to my house, a few cabinets and all the other little things a home handyman does.
Recently I've become more interested in doing some simple furniture building and some kitchen and bath remodeling so I figured I could factor the cost of new tooling into the *alleged* cost saving of DIY.
Thus I succumbed to the siren call of the CABINET SAW and decided to buy one. But which one? Using comments in this forum, product reviews, etc. etc, I decided for various reasons to buy American and get me one of them Unisars.
In other threads I railed against what I perceived as lousy quality control and the fact (in my mind) that manufactures didn't sell saws, they sold saw kits; a bunch of parts that needed to be finished by the sucker-err---buyer, to complete the construction. I gotta a lot of flack over that one so without further ado or editorial comment follows the ongoing story of the Delta Unisaw...
1.    Decided to buy locally (glad I did) from Woodcraft during their March 10% off sale. Went with a 30" Biesemeyer fence and Delta mobile base. Paid all of $15 extra for home delivery.
2.    Week later, saw arrives. Two Woodcraft guys deliver in PU truck with no lift gate. Call next-door neighbor over and four of us skid it down a couple of 4x4s without incident. Tilt indicator was bright red before unloading and big hole in box but no apparent damage. Sell Craftsman saw to neighbor for hundred bucks.
3.    Manage to single-handedly get saw off pallet onto mobile base. Work stops here during three-week trip.
4.    Back home, back to assembly. Options are: open all boxes and do inventory and then lose parts before they are needed; or, wait until parts are needed to open boxes. Choose second option.
5.    Assemble left-hand cast iron extension wing. Doesn't line up. Make it flush with the table front and rear and it sags 8 thou midway along the joint line although one inch back from the front, the extension is proud 4 thou. Left front outside edge of extension droops 20 thou.
6.    Call Wendy at Woodcraft. She says Delta will drop ship replacement to me. Work stops for a week.
7.    UPS man brings new extension wing. This one is worse than the original! The finish is horrible. On both wings, it appears than when the grinding wheel was introduced to the iron there was a lot of chatter. The first couple of inches bear witness to this by being very rough and showing the wheel marks. If I eat enough Wheaties, I can turn this thing upside down and use it as a wood rasp. Say to hell with it and reinstall original extension wing. Determine that part of the misalignment is an artifact of the main table having a high spot at the left front edge. Aligning the wing to this spot creates misalignment along the rest of the interface. Use flat grinding stone to hone this high spot down and fiddle fart around until I figure it's good enough.
8.    Install front and rear angle supports. Instructions say that front support that holds rip fence rail must be installed to exact dimension of 2 27/32" below table top. No way in hell will this happen without enlarging mounting holes in table top. Start elongating holes with rat-tail file. Slow going. Decide that since angle surface is too low, another option would be to add shims between angle and fence rail. Bolt on fence rail using " flat washers as shims. Works dandy.
9.    Time to mount the laminate extension table. Manual says, and photos show, mounting of "Z-bracket". No Z-bracket to be found in boxes. Call Woodcraft. They say they will call Delta and call back. Next day after not hearing from Woodcraft, I call Delta. Guy says, "Oh, the Z-bracket isn't used with Beisemeyer fence, the manual is wrong." While I have him on the phone I mention misalignment of fence rail. He says, 'Be glad that it's too low, that way you can use shims for alignment, some of them are too high then you have a real problem." Lucky me! I also mention extension wing problem. He says he will send another.
10.    Ten days later, UPS man comes with extension wing. The box is completely shredded and it is obvious that somewhere along the line, the extension has exited the box and landed on a corner against a hard object. Besides the bent corner, the finish is as rough as the others. Unless Delta sends somebody out to retrieve this one, I now have a heavy-duty surface plate of questionable accuracy.
Otherwise, after four months of steady use, I'm happy.
Enjoy. It's still a great saw, and once adjusted, the fence is right on. It's a joy to set it to the desired dimension and have the cut right on that dimension without fuss.
Wes
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wrote:

General is kind enough to install the wings on the 350/650 at the factory. What you give up in fun trying to install the wings is gained ordering your help "DON'T PICK IT UP BY THE WINGS!!", while moving it in through a door only slightly larger than the saw, in 20 degree weather. <G>
Delta messed up the parts inventory on my DJ-20 and X5 bandsaw. They did finally make it right, but the process took several calls and 3-4 weeks in each case. I was royally pissed off both times. Both machines were missing show stopping parts. I suggested to the last rep I spoke to that if they concentrated on leaving out bolts or belts, rather than proprietary parts, most of us would simply buy the parts locally, just to get the tool in service. This would save Delta money. She just didn't see the humor in that. Barry
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Take your time assembling and it. Have a friend come over and help assemble it. Have 2 more friends to help get it off the truck. Its pretty easy to put together if you take your time. I check the alignments once a year and the parts drift only the smallest amount.
I would recomend an alignment gague set. I used TS-Aligner Jr.
Set the fence a tinsy bit proud at the outfeed end to avoid kickback. Get the splitter kit.
The blade that comes with it is actually pretty good. I've used it alternating with a more expensive blade and found them close.
Good Cutting!!
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Congratulations! I got the same thing a year ago. The setup was a breeze. I needed to only tweak the fence a smidgen. The 0 and 45 degree stops were dead on. I had it set up id half a day. The bugger is heavy though. I got my son to invite three friends over to lift it out of the truck and onto the mobile base. Cost me a couple of pizzas!
Grant
Mike Pio wrote:

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Grant,
How tough do you think it would be to lift the saw onto a mobile base after it's assembled? I've never needed to move my current saw around the shop at all, but I may consider a mobile base for this saw just in case. Do you think it could be moved out of alignment while being lifted onto a base?
BTW, did those guys get pepperoni on those pizzas? ;-)
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Excuse me for butting in, but I lifted mine into the base by myself. I just tilted it up from the extension table end lifting on the fence rails, (pretty easy leveraged that far back), and slid a 2X4 under. Then lifted the other end using the first 2X4 as a fulcrum and slid in another. After getting it up 2 24's high I just scooted it over onto the base. It wasn't too difficult, but you need a good, strong back.
Gary
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Mike Pio asks:

Not likely. Do NOT lift by the fence rails, even with the Biese.
Best way is to check clearance underneath, set up the mobile base to one side of the saw, almost touching. Get two 2x4s and 3 friends in good health. Slip the 2x4s under the table extenion junctions with the table, lift and place as gently as possible.
I've walked Unisaws (and Jet and other 10" cabinet saws) as much as 10' just by tilting the saw up a bit and twisting. It is hard work, bumps the saw more than is sensible, really (but when you work alone, there's often not much choice), but never once did I have an alignment problem afterwards. Do it more gently and unless you haven't bolted something on securely, lifting the unit the 4" or 5" onto a mobile stand should cause no problems.
Best way, really, is what I do now for most heavy materials: get hold of a shop crane. Use nylon lift straps. Zip. Over and done with. Return the crane and straps and you're in Fat City.
Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken
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