Need Advice On Sizing/Hinging Shaker Doors

I need some help figuring out how to size the shaker style doors for my kit chen. I think that I also need to decide on which hinges I will be using so that I can size the doors correctly. I'm counting on you guys to point me in the right direction. As you'll see from the questions below, this is all brand new to me.
Let's start with this picture, which is the look I am going for.
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/imagejpg1_zpsb8f29715.j pg
The kitchen currently has a number of single doors and 2 sets of double doo rs, one set in the upper cabinets and one set below the sink.
Examples:
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/20150127_181659_zps4d5d eedc.jpg
I don't know the correct term, but the doors are a hybrid between inset and overlay. Here's a shot of the inside of one of the doors:
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/4bd3e971-6439-448f-a1ee -6ee64c04b911_zpsd31cc8ea.jpg
OK, so the plan is to make the doors from 3/4" poplar and 1/4" MDF panels. They will be full overlay. (Right?) I think I would like to use self closin g European style hinges, unless you guys point me in a different direction (like you did with the under-mount drawer slides). I spoke to a rep at Cor nerstone Hardware who suggested some hinges for me to consider:
http://www.cabinethardware.com/Salice-Silentia-105-176-Titanium-Hinges-p/12 86.htm
I have no idea if these will work for me. I'm not even sure if I should be choosing 1/2", 3/8" or 3/4" overlay, but I think my only choice is 1/2". He re is what I do know:
For the single doors...
The current single doors are no more than 1/2" wider than the cabinet openi ng, so they only overlay about 1/4" on each side. I assume that would be ca lled a 1/4" overlay. There is a 1.5" gap between each door. If I decide on a 1/2" overlay, does that mean that each door will need to be built 1/2" wi der than the door it is replacing? That would of course mean that the gap b etween each door would be reduced to 1". That seems kind of narrow. Can the doors be built to be 1/2" overlay on the hinge side and 1/4" on the openin g side? Wouldn't that allow for a 1.25" gap between the doors?
For the double doors...
As you can see from the picture of the existing doors, they close tight tog ether. In the picture of the shaker doors, there is a gap. On my cabinets, there is no stile between the doors so I'm not sure if it is OK to have a g ap and if so, how big it can/should be.
So, any advice you guys care to offer regarding both door sizes and hinges, I'm open to it. I'd like to start making the doors this weekend. Thanks!
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On 1/27/2015 5:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'm working on a cabinet that will have doors almost identical to what you seem to be planning. I will also have two doors that close "together". My plan for that will be to glue a strip of same material on the inner edge of one of the doors so that when they close there won't be a gap. I will have 1/2" overlay on *both* sides of the doors. (The doors will be 1" larger in height and width than the opening) I'm using these hinges:
http://www.myknobs.com/hr3396000.html (cheap but adequate)
(this cabinet is to go on our patio to store an assortment of flower gardening tools for the Mrs.) They will be painted. (Behr exterior semi-gloss)
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On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 8:36:10 PM UTC-5, Max wrote:

kitchen. I think that I also need to decide on which hinges I will be usin g so that I can size the doors correctly. I'm counting on you guys to point me in the right direction. As you'll see from the questions below, this is all brand new to me.

15.jpg

doors, one set in the upper cabinets and one set below the sink.

4d5deedc.jpg

and overlay. Here's a shot of the inside of one of the doors:

a1ee-6ee64c04b911_zpsd31cc8ea.jpg

ls. They will be full overlay. (Right?) I think I would like to use self cl osing European style hinges, unless you guys point me in a different direct ion (like you did with the under-mount drawer slides). I spoke to a rep at Cornerstone Hardware who suggested some hinges for me to consider:

p/1286.htm

be choosing 1/2", 3/8" or 3/4" overlay, but I think my only choice is 1/2" . Here is what I do know:

pening, so they only overlay about 1/4" on each side. I assume that would b e called a 1/4" overlay. There is a 1.5" gap between each door. If I decide on a 1/2" overlay, does that mean that each door will need to be built 1/2 " wider than the door it is replacing? That would of course mean that the g ap between each door would be reduced to 1". That seems kind of narrow. Can the doors be built to be 1/2" overlay on the hinge side and 1/4" on the op ening side? Wouldn't that allow for a 1.25" gap between the doors?

together. In the picture of the shaker doors, there is a gap. On my cabine ts, there is no stile between the doors so I'm not sure if it is OK to have a gap and if so, how big it can/should be.

ges, I'm open to it. I'd like to start making the doors this weekend. Thank s!


Will that force you to open the door without the strip first so that you ca n open the other door? If I'm picturing it correctly, my shed door is made like that.
I'm not sure that would want to see the strip every time I open the door.
I will have 1/2" overlay on *both* sides of the doors. (The

Only time will tell. 0.88 seems too cheap to be long lasting.

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On 1/27/2015 7:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Here's what it looks like:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100373064@N03/?details=1

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"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

When you wrote "shaker style" I envisioned inset paneled doors with standard butt hinges... not overlay doors!
For example: http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/4628/shaker-wall-cupboard
As such I'll have to defer on a hinge suggestion as I haven't built any overlay doors like that.
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On 1/27/2015 7:50 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

That's more like my idea of "Shaker" too. Inset.
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There are three ways you can position doors on a cabinet:
1. Inset. The front of the door is flush with the front of the face frame and the door is just slightly smaller than the opening. These are good looking, also the hardest to do.
2. Overlay. The door overlays the face frame. It can overlay it by various amounts but the hinge has to accomodate the overlay. A 1/2" overlay is (IME) the most common and - normally - that means the door is 1" bigger than the opening in both directions (consider double doors as one). As I said, the overlay has to match the hinge on the hinge edge but it *could* be different on the other three sides. Personally, I like overlay doors for a kitchen, helps to keep dust out of the cabinets.
3. Half overlay (or maybe half inset?). Basically, overlay doors with a rabbet all around the inside so that the door projects less. That's what you have.
You need to decide which you want, then choose hinges to accomodate. If you don't want any part of the hbige to show you'll have to use sonething similar to the one you linked.
Regarding the face frame reveal, yes, if you make 1/2" overlay doors the reveal of your face frame will be reduced. A 1" reveal is not too little IMO, in fact, that is what I use.
There is NP in not having a stile in the center of your double doors. As someone suggested, you could inset a srip into the back of one of the doors. In fact, my kitchen cabinets are that way...but they are solid wood and I wanted to leave a bit of a gap for expansion/contraction. You don't need that with frame and panel doors, build them so there is barely any gap - paper thin - but bevel the edges toward the back by about 3 degrees.
My suggestion would be to make the doors oversize, hang them where they will be then mark and trim them. Have a sharp plane handy :)
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If you put a stile between the double doors below the sink, make it removable (screw it to the face frame, don't glue or mortice & tenon it). If you ever need to work on the plumbing under the sink, and you will, you'll want to remove that stile and have a full width opening.
John
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On 1/28/2015 3:27 PM, John McCoy wrote:

*Now* you tell me. ;-)
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On 1/28/2015 7:23 PM, Max wrote:

In a word: Pocket hole jig...
Easy to clamp flush with existing, and easy to remove.
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On 1/28/2015 6:27 PM, Swingman wrote:

I can do that!
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Be careful, though, as those metal edges are sharp!
Just pet the blue plastic, ok?
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On 1/27/2015 6:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

The Salice hinges at Cornerstone will work ... I use mostly Salice, or Grass, these days.
Make it easy on yourself.
TIP: Easiest/quickest way, on existing cabinets, is to measure by "burying" the first 1" (for 1/2" overlay; 1 1/2" for 3/4" overlay,etc) on the tape measure, and using the resulting reading on the tape as the desired door dimension.
~ Single door: for 1/2" overlay (which is fairly standard) for single door, simply add/bury 1" to both the cabinet opening height and width for your door width and height.
~ Double door: and you want 1/2" overlay in an opening with no center stile:
1. Height - measure for door height as above
2. Width - add/bury 1" to full cabinet opening width; divide that number by 2; subtract from that number, half the desired middle gap (subtract 1/16" if you want 1/8" gap between doors), for each door width dimension
Note: for an overlay double door cabinet with no center stile, a planned 1/8" gap usually works quite well as it leaves you enough lateral room for adjustment, which most concealed Euro hinges will give you.
CAVEAT: missing in your information was the CABINET rail and stile width of the cabinets. ALWAYS take stile and rail width of the cabinets into account when deciding upon the size of your overlay.
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On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

ges, I'm open to it. I'd like to start making the doors this weekend. Thank s!






If I understand your caveat, I think the information you say was missing wa s buried within my post. We just have to do some math.
I posted these two pieces of information:
1 - The current door overlay is 1/4". 2 - There is a 1.5" gap between each single door.
Therefore stile width is (should be..I'm not home to measure) 1/4" on hinge of door 1 + 1/4" on opening side of door 2 + 1.5" reveal = 2" stile.
If I increase the the overlay to 1/2", I will reduce the gap to 1" which da diOH says is fine. Am I on the right track?
As far as the height, I may opt to retain the 1/4" overlay, at least on the uppers, based on the fact that there is a minimal reveal at the bottom of the upper cabinets and the tops of the doors are level with the trim around the wooden window valance that hides the sink light.
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On 1/28/2015 9:44 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

We usually try to get all the reveals/spaces between adjacent doors and drawer fronts to match throughout the cabinetry.
Thus the rails and stiles are almost always sized to make a blanket overlay (1/2, 5/8, 3/4, etc.) work throughout the cabinet installation.
However, this can be strictly aesthetics in some cases, and speaks to the look of the cabinetry, so if changing your overlay on top, bottom and side opposite the hinge looks good in your kitchen, go for it.
The overlay however is usually critical on the hinge side.

The overlay on the height is optional, can be adjusted to suit your taste and style of the cabinetry.
Again, the overlay is usually critical on the hinge side.
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On 1/27/2015 6:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Forgot to mention.
I routinely use a large variety door hinges due to the number of situations I run across daily when retrofitting/remodeling existing cabinets.
When in doubt, or using new hinge styles, I routinely buy ONE pair and:
Using some plywood scraps and ten minutes of time, make yourself a dummy face frame or frameless cabinet "side", which can be used repeatedly for testing various hinges and overlays, how much adjustment you need, and for precise measurement when drilling the concealed hinge holes:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#6098758717974020466
I use this contraption on almost every job, particularly when using new hinges. Takes all the guesswork out dealing with the confusing myriad of hinge types, and makes it a piece o cake to be safe than sorry.
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