Must...not...buy...tools.

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Argh, tools, TOOLS! (power tools to be exact) I could use a router and I see a nice reconditioned Dewalt for an excellent price. I can use this to smooth up my edges for joining my wood, as I understand it.
But I just bought a Nice Miter saw, then found I can use the table saw for 90% of my miter cuts. So I spend $145 and didnt even use the thing yet for this project but only the table saw :(
Now Im thinking I could use a Jointer but this is just out of hand.
Im in Michigan, Detroit. Is there perhaps some way to rent these kinds of tools or rent a shop for a while? Sure I can probably afford a few tools but I don't want to waste money when I could easily share tools for the amount of work I actually do. And I'd hate to buy another tool to not use it. Hand tools are fine though, I seem to be using every one I can find and buy :)
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Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
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Not sure about tool rentals, but I'd recommend the router. I got a reconditioned Dewalt router a year or so ago, and I've never regreted it. I just got the plunge base from eBay to go with it. It can be used to smooth up edges for jointing, especially when used in a table with a fence designed for jointing - google 'router table jointer' for some tips there. The router is overall a very versatile tool, probably moreso than the miter saw. The miter saw is safer and maybe more accurate for crosscuts and miters than the TS, though, so you might want to consider that. On the other hand, if you want to give me your miter saw, I'd be willing to help you clear up some space in your shop for your new router... Seriously, as difficult as it is, I'm trying to learn how to buy tools as I really need them, and not just because they're cool, I could use them someday, or they're on sale. Good luck dealing with your addiction, and I'm sure you'll find plenty of consolation here. Andy
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Oh, I'd never ever do that. No, never! However, I will buy a tool on sale if it is one I know that I will use a lot. In fact, I just took one such tool (that I bought on sale because I knew I would use it a lot) out of its box and into the shelves, and when I went to file my sales receipt and warranty info, found out that the often-to-be-used bargain had been sitting in my shop unopened for 18 months! Yeah, I only buy a tool when I really need it!
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dnoyeB wrote:

Tool addictions are common. I have a few buddies that buy tools left and right and use them very little, if at all.
In large part, the basis for an unreasonable tool addiction is lack of skill or knowledge. There is an underlying belief that lack of skill or knowledge can be offset with "the proper tools". Hence someone with an ample budget may start accumulating tools without increasing any skill or knowledge. As skill and knowledge increase, and the number of projects tackled increses, you'll find you can do more with less and the purchase of tools becomes a matter of true necessity rather than lack of skill or knowledge.
I also teach people basic HTML. It's common to see people accumulate various fancy software that they hope will enable them to do this that or the other thing, when what they really need for now is basic knowledge and basic skills.
I realize that all comes off as a little dicky and a little highbrowed, but that's how I see it.
Joe Barta
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Joe Barta wrote:

I worked on cars since i was 16 and my mom told me only way for it to run was if I made it run. I had junk tools and had to work very hard and long time to get things to behave. Then I learn the hard way that doing a job without proper tools can greatly extend the job as well as the frustration. So I come to a deadstop when I dont have proper tools. So I have a great appreciation of the proper tools.
I think in woodworking I don't quite know what the proper tools are so I concede that. But i have learned that I can use a router for making an edge joint quality. and maybe even a hand planer with a bit of sand paper.

Yea, I used to use simple HTML programs. Then found Net objects fusion and loved it. Then I bought both MS front page and adobe (something). Both far more capable and more complicated. In the end I gave them away and am back to using netobjects fusion because it does all I really need... This is the kind of knowledge I wish I could get the easy way in woodworking :P
I think perhaps if I can set up a budget and some rules like 2 week cool off period, I can maybe not feel guilty. But the tools are seducing me.
Its very comforting to hear that other people have had tools on their shelves for months without using them. Like I been feeling bad about this big metal hand miter contraption my dad rediscovered in the basement of one of his apartments and gave me along with circular saw. I threw out the miter contraption, but now I know what it was and could have used it. I have the circular saw but will need to replace it since its motor sits too low and interfers with my fencing attempts.
but I have a hand planer I used years ago on a door at my mothers house. I didn't know what it was, but I do now and should be using it soon after I sharpen it. Thats a great feeling to use something you held on to for so long. Especially the more exotic tools \o/
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Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
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dnoyeB wrote:

So why are you saying "must ... not ... buy ... tools" about the router? Your desire to buy it doesn't sound like the "unreasonable tool addiction" Joe was talking about.

Story, perhaps with a moral: I bought a handsaw and miter guide at an antique store, because I'd been wanting one for a while and this one was a quite nice one, and also kinda because the seller talked me into it and convinced me I was getting a deal. (My wife was a bit upset with me because she thought I was making an impulse buy and that I'd been had.) And I got home, and at some point was looking around online for similar things, and discovered that the updated version of the one I bought was practically identical and just as good, and sells, new, for $20 less than what I paid for mine.
And so I learned something. Specifically, I learned what it feels like when someone's talking me into an overpriced deal on something that I sort of want but don't really need. If I can recognize that next time somebody tries it, that's probably worth well more than the twenty dollars.
Routers are, as such things go, not all that expensive and they don't take up too much space. Maybe in this case it's worth the learning experience even if you don't end up using it much.... :)
- Brooks
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Joe Barta wrote:

For what it's worth, a lot of my unreasonable tool addiction impulses come from the fact that I simply don't have _time_ to do much woodworking these days, and buying a tool is still doing something that's related to woodworking. This is, luckily, tempered by the fact that I also have no space to put things.
(Actually, the last few months, I've made a bit of time for woodworking by completely taking a break from spending time on one of my other hobbies. The result is that I've spent notably more on stuff for the other hobby than I have on woodworking tools.)
Thing is, I'm pretty sure that even with skill and knowledge, this "true necessity" of which you speak can still lead to a few thousand dollars of good woodworking tools. Sure, I could joint the edge of the hard oak barn boards I've been working with by hand with a plane, but doing it on a jointer takes substantially less time. And, what with the lack of time I was talking about above, that's worth a fair bit.
- Brooks
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wrote:

The Delta industrial dealer nearest me have machines set up and available for use by prospect buyers, not that I could walk in with the rough stock for a project and joint it. But they will allow sometime to play.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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It's an illness. :-) I have a contractor's table saw, 14" band saw, 2 drill presses, planer, miter saw, leigh jig, belt/disk sander, mortiser, dust collector, scroll saw, little compressor, tormek, three nailers, about a half a dozen routers, and a herd of other hand power tools.
I'm still missing a jointer, bigger planer, bigger compressor, hplv gun, spindle sander, edge sander, drum sander, air cleaner, bigger cyclone dust collector, 21" bandsaw, downdraft table, vacuum press, moulding machine. Oh, a multi-router would be nice. And I'd like to upgrade from by contractor's saw to that awsome-looking grizzly 12" table saw. Two table saws! And a bigger miter saw, a slider because my 10" delta chop saw sucks. And I need an out-building to store the stuff in the garage, I mean shop, that shouldn't be there. And while we're at it, how about a 2000sqft outbuilding with heated wood floors, AC, separate finishing room, a separate room for the DC and compressor and a sink and bathroom... and a couch so my wife will feel like being out there with me. Then there's lighting which is good but still inadequate. And I haven't even mentioned turning. And I'm dying to get into stained glass for the panels in doors instead of raised panel doors. And I saw this modern masters episode a few years ago where thie guy used a die grinder on a lathe with water as a coolant to sand down these green granite legs that he attached to the end of the legs on this table. It was awesome. Then I have two bizarre computer-controlled machines "designed" in my head that I want to make. Did you know a 50" wide belt sander costs less than what most people spend on a car? And maybe I should get that 20" planer instead of the 15" planer, cry once and all. I could keep going and going.
I went out to the grizzly website and picked all the tools I didn't have yet. I made a money-is-no-object list and put it in the shopping cart. I didn't even include the $15k wide belt sander and I got over $30,000.
feel better? :-)
brian
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It's called "toolgasms". Got it really bad. We recently moved into a warehouse (15,000 sf) to hopefully house everything. Already running out of space. A friend calls that his business has some old machines to get rid of, a Wallace mortiser, Delta/Rockwell VS drill press, a Dewalt/B&D 5hp 16" radial arm saw and two glue welders. Seems one of the buildings they were using got sold by the landlord. Would YOU walk away at $250???? I couldn't. Things just happen. Belger truck showed up with two sanders the same color. The wife thought it was one machine over 20' long. She came out to the warehouse to inquire as to the location of my head. I think she was relieved to find it was two machines. Johannsen 4X8 stroke and a Ramsa 24" 25hp belt sanders. Well, I might need 'em. I'll show her, one of these days. (I hope!). She hasn't found a cure for me yet. Probably timely I'm selling the machine guns. Had to to pay for the building rehab. Oh well. We won't go into the machine shop and welding stuff. Did I mention I have a WONDERFUL wife???? I would give up all the rest before her though. Anyone need a Rockwell Mill (V & H)?? Ron

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Must not buy tools?
Are you INSANE? If you are a GUY, you MUST buy tools. Until you die...that's the 'murican way!
Dave
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Brian,
You are going at this whole thing wrong!
The idea is to dig high and low to look for any real or imaginary rational that allows you to purchase a tool.
Trying to rationalize why you don't need a tool or how you can make a tool do multiple tasks is just not the norm!
Then in no time at all you'll be planning the expansion of your shop!
Don Dando

9:16
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Don Dando wrote:

I'm with you, screw the woodworking... tool collecting is MUCH more enjoyable hobby ;-)
Joe Barta
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You're in the wrong room for this kind of post. visit rec.mywife.runs.mylife
Dave

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Teamcasa wrote:

You wouldn't be suggesting he's p*ssy whipped are you, Dave? :)
Dave
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A friend of mine bought a very large SnapOn open end wrench. He has it wrapped in a blue velvet piece of material. He saw it on a SnapOn truck, thought the chroming was exquisite and bought it for looks. Once in a while, he'll pull it out of his desk drawer, shines it up, (can't have any finger prints on it) and puts it back in his desk drawer. That wrench will NEVER see a nut or bolt, 'cuz it might scratch it.... the wrench that is.
Other than that, he's a normal upstanding member of the community, very respected in his business dealings and just a great guy.
I still feel the need to have a talk with him. About that wrench and his uncontrollable pleasure when he found a mint-condition "convenience-store-type" vacuum tube tester with a full inventory of brand new tubes in the bottom cabinet. It has a very prominent place in his play room..and NO fingerprints on any of the tubes. Yup.. right beside the Lancaster Bomber radio and landing gear strut.
I should talk.. I have a Lamello Classic which I won't use. Too clean and neat to be used... and there ain't gonna be no woman telling ME what to buy for tools!
Now, about that 9-foot Bosendorfer in my laundry room...
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"Robatoy" snip

You have a grand piano in your laundry room? It must be one sweet laundry room? Dave
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Throw a couple of workboots in the dryer for that rythm section, oh yeah...
I wish. A guy can dream, right?
Bosendorfer is one of those companies that never compromised. A great role model.
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Robatoy wrote:

Interesting thought... about not compromising. More specifically, that "compromising" is somehow bad.
In an idealistic world "everything" is made to "the highest quality". In reality though, it's easy to see how that notion falls apart. Even the highest quality goods, relatively speaking, have compromises. There is no such thing as the "highest" quality because goods can always be made better.
In reality it's all about finding your market. The market for high end goods is just as legitimate and just as honorable as the low end. Where consumers get into trouble is buying low end while expecting high end. Where manufacturers get into trouble is in the area of misrepresentation.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a manufacturer of a cheaper item can be just as much of a role model as a manufacturer of an expensive one.
It's late and I'm babbling... sorry.
Joe Barta
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Robatoy wrote:

Robatoy, this is a _complete troll_ on your part and I recognize that!!
You're just looking for someone to say "Bosendorfer? They suck! You should have gotten a Hamburg Steinway!"
Then someone else to say "Hamburg? Buy American, you bastard, the NY Steinway hammers sound better anyway!"
Then someone else will chime in with "a well-tuned Mason & Hamlin is cheaper and will get you 90% of the way there..."
Then some &^%$er will chime in about rigging one for 220, and after that we're off to the races about which way the *&^%ing lid should tilt.
Well I've just saved everyone the time and trouble, so no need to go there. Robatoy is just trolling.
Just trolling. I recognize that.
p.s. For the money, I'd go Boston anyway...made by Steinway and they have much better dust collection.
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