I hate dovetails

[Ba r r y]

This tip is good for any router bit. I have a block with 8 different sizes of chamfers, rail and stile blocks, raised panel blocks, etc...

Barry

[Ed]

Snip!

I bought the Spehar dovetail saw. Vlad Spehar makes them to fit your hand exactly and the quality is second to none. They are a little steep, I think it was $125 US even though Vlad is in Ontario. I still need a lot of practice but Vlad is great with suggestions and tips as well. I'm so happy with this saw I'm probably going to buy a cross-cut tenon saw from him as well. I've put a link to his website below. As usual, I'm not affiliated with the company in any way other than being a very satisfied customer. You can email me directly if you want a pic of my saw so you can see what it looks like.

[Peter De Smidt]

these days.

Could you explain why it's a lousy dovetailer?

-Peter De Smidt

[Andy Dingley]

these days.

It's not really bad at dovetailing, just very limited for what it can do it on.

Dovetailing (or box joint cutting) with the Incra relies on a sliding carriage that runs on the fence. You clamp the stock to the carriage, then make multiple passes for each tail, according to the strip and the fence settings.

The problem is lack of rigidity in that sliding carriage. It's poorly guided by the fence and this gets worse the wider the piece of stock you have clamped to it. If you're making small boxes, then it's probably fine for you. For any joint longer than 4" though it becomes awkward, and 6" is about the limit.

I'd much rather have a long finger jig, where I can clamp the board edges in, then move a hand-held router over them.

[Gary DeWitt]

What about box joints? Easy to do, once you have your jig (don't forget to note the required dado shims/settings on the jig!) What about rabbet joints with reinforcing, decorative small dowels, or brass pins ala Mr. Marks? Then, if you don't want to buy an expensive router bit for occaisional use, there's always creating your own locking joint, dado in the sides and rabbet in the front. I used this on poplar shop drawers, with maple fronts added, they are holding up well to heavy, nearly daily use.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the reply. I can see how that would be a potential problem.

On another matter, I recently received an foul-mouthed email from someone named Greg Millen, whom I've never heard of. In googling him, it seems that he posts here. Since my only recent post here was earlier in this thread, where I asked Andy to explain what he meant, I'm at a loss as to how I offended Mr. Millen. Not that I care, mind you, as it's obvious what type of person he is. This is just a heads up for others in case you get a peurile message from him.

-Peter De Smidt

[bridger]

wasn't him. it was a troll impersonating him.

[Andy Dingley]

I very much doubt that - there's a lot of forged trollmail flying around at the moment, concerned with the formation of a new rec.woodworking.all-ages group. The new wannabee-moderator has already described the existing group as a "sewer", and as it's not living up to its billing, someone seems to be busy trying to pretend it is.

My apologies for your email, but I doubt very much it came from either Greg or Dave Balderstone.

BTW - I was trolled last week, and I'm expecting a batch of these emails to go out soon with my name on them. To save any possible confusion, I _never_ send out abusive emails. If I'm going to call any poster names, I'll do it on Usenet.

[RonB]

Well, I received one of these messages too. I honestly do not even remeber seeing the posts regarding the new group you mentioned. Really irritating having that kind of message show up on a family computer.

I responded directly to Mr Millen. Will be interesting to see if he responds.

[Dave Mundt]

Greetings and Salutations.... *snip*

Hum..that is interesting, as I received such an email today. Now..I dropped a note back thanking him for the input, and inquiring as to what triggered it...and now I kind of reget it, as I fear that someone spammed these out, in order to overwhelm Mr. Millen's mailbox with traffic. I was a tad puzzled because, as far as I could tell from a google search, I had not posted to anything HE had... Sigh. Regards dave mundt

[SawDust]

Personally Owen, I'd just get a couple of short, three or four inch wide boards and actually give it a try before you run out and buy fancy dovetail guides.

Don't be afraid of screwing it up, cause that is how you learn and worse comes to worse your going to lose what... an hour of your time.

Go online or get a library book, there are plenty of resources to explain how you layout a dovetail "and the various styles of dovetail" follow the directions. Learn how to lay it out, mark the sections your going to remove, do your cutting and pairing and see what works and what doesn't.

Regardless of whether you use an inexpensive saw or a $200 saw, or a LV dovetail guide or a bevel guage or some other marking tool to lay it out, dovetails "When you first start" are not perfect one cut wonders. They need to be refined and played with. You only get that from experience of actually trying it.

If that's not to your liking..

Like I wrote before take the course at LV. It's a fraction of the cost of their guides, but at least you will get some instruction, and you will get to use their guides and saws, and that will give you some experience with the tools and technique, which you can take and adapt to you, meaning "Do I really need to buy the $200 saw or do I like the $30 Japanese Dozuki. Do I need the LV dovetail guide or can I accomplish the same task using a homemade jig".

I've made three dovetail joints to date. The first was close and a good first attempt. The other two worked, cause I could see what I did wrong the first time. What did it cost - that $12 dollar Bucky Brothers back saw. I already had my chisels.

Before I tried it - I was going to buy the LV guide and saw combo. Now that cash will be put towards something else.

Pat

[Lowell Holmes]

The Lie Nielson video on dovetails shows how to set up a saw as well as how to cut the dovetails. Good investment. They also will be glad to sell you a saw if you want one. ;-)

[Owen Lawrence]

Thanks for the advice. I actually have tried making dovetail joints, and I wasn't happy at all with the results. I'm not giving up, though. As for the dovetail guide, in my last message I was actually thinking of the marking guages, not the guide. (I just like the way they look; I'm not expecting them to really solve any great problems for me.)

Interestingly, I just got back from the library about half an hour ago. I read Christian B's Aug. 2004 article on dovetail tips in Fine Woodworking while I was there. He didn't have anything to say about his saw (which I noticed has a fancy handle), but he makes it look easy enough.

Blast. I just looked at the Lee Valley website, and I missed the dovetail seminar by 6 days. Even if I'd known about it I wouldn't have been able to attend. Sigh. Maybe next time. I'll catch the one at this year's Wood Show instead. I'm already getting excited; looks like the big crunch at work will be over by then. :)

- Owen -

[Sbtypesetter]

In 80 minutes you could have built the four drawers with hand cut dovetails. The best instruction I have ever found on the subject is from Taunton Press. The title is something like "Frank Klaus cuts dovetails". -Rick