Harbor Fright - Are you just a cheapskate? Tool Snob?

[Enoch Root]

I don't think I'm the person to ask this question. It made me realize, I'm to good for an L-N dovetail saw.

8-o

er

[bridgerfafc]

you sound like me, right down to the small hammers bit....

[Joe Gorman]

navy). And their 2# brass/copper hammers make nice carving mallets with the handle cut off. Joe

[Leuf]

I have my grandfather's coping saw, but I wouldn't exactly call it an heirloom ;) I wonder does anyone even make a super deluxe coping saw? It's gotta have nickel plating and a quick blade tension lever.

Yep. And if you feel like you are being held back by the tool by all means go for the super deluxe version if you can afford it. But that doesn't mean the previous tool wasn't worth having just because you outgrew it. Until it breaks or I run out of space, that old Ryobi is going to stay in the shop and reduce the number of times I have to change blades on the new one, and use less electricity for the small jobs. When you've got yer Laguna all set up for resawing and you need to make one curved cut I bet you wish your old one was still around :)

-Leuf

[Shopdog]

I wish I had something better to say then why are you so hard on your tools? I have yet to break a craftsman tool, and it can't be because I work any less than you. There is a proper tool for each and every job. If you use a

3/8 ratchet on something that should get a 1/2 then you are asking for breakage.

Searcher

[Leuf]

When you ask a tool to do a job it wasn't intended to do, guess what, it doesn't perform well. If you take a cheap a tool to an expensive piece of wood and wreck it you're an idiot, not for buying the tool but for having happen exactly what you'd expect to happen and then blaming the tool. If you feel like your tools are holding you back then by all means get a better tool for the task at hand. But don't insinuate that anyone who doesn't spend as much on tools as you doesn't care about the quality of their work as much as you do.

-Leuf

[Dave Hall]

My brother has a decent collection of Snap-On tools. He bought them from the mentally challenged semi-minimum wage "mechanics" at the car dealership he used to work for. These folks would regularly go bankrupt and, just before doing so, sell the Snap-On's for pennies on the dollar, as long as it was cash. The Snap-On truck would start selling to these folks shortly after they came out of bankruptcy. "Hey, buy this $30 screwdriver and just pay $2 per week for the next 2 years". The truck was always there on pay day to collect - and sell more tools.

Dave Hall

[Leon]

When you've got yer Laguna all set up for resawing and you need

Actually my old one was such a hassle to use that I pulled out the Milwaukee jig saw as the tool of preference if it could do the job. I'll probably not leave the Laguna in resaw mode and probably leave a 1/2" blade on it most of the time. With that in mind, a strong reason for upgrading was to be able to enjoy faster blade changes. The Laguna now uses thumb screws for the side and thrust ceramic adjustments. No long reaches in to cramped areas with hex wrenches any more.

[CW]

1/2" breaker bar. 4 foot pipe. Tells me loads about him.

[RonB]

I doubt if I can add much to this marathon. You get what you pay for.

However, I have had a couple of fairly good experinces with HF. In a weak moment I paid $99 for one of their mortising machines about five years ago. Know what? It cuts square holes. The hold-down hardware sucks but that is true of some of the much more expensive machines. It probably is not my last mortiser but it works fine for what I do.

Some of their $12 to $25 nailers are amazingly durable. I know a finish carpenter who is almost ashamed of them but can't wear them out.

RonB

[Rob V]

To me HF is great for those wierd 1 off tools that you may only use once and cant justify spending big coin on. When you need that 7th fetser valve changer - that you know you will only use 1 time - it doesnt make sense to spend big bux on a quality tool.

Ie - Their 12" metal cutoff saw - I picked it up a while back for 39 bux - I had to cut some flat metal stock for something I was building - I rarely work w/ metal and it was better than using a hacksaw and for 39 bux - It was worth my time to buy it. Since its initial use (about 3 hours worth) Ive used it a hand full of times and its been great.

To me - for those things - I dont mind buying HF - 39 vs 199 for the PC metal cut off. Now the tools I make my living with - I have no problem at all going top of the line or very close to it.

Just my .02

[Joe Wells]

My personal rules of thumb for HF:

1) Never buy anything whose failure could cause injury. 2) Never buy anything whose failure could ruin a project.

That doesn't leave much.

[George]

Nope. You pay for what you get. Matching it to the task and the wallet used to be your job. Now, it would seem, it's the job of those "greedy big industrialists" to look out for your interests and provide whatever you want for the price you're willing. Or else you call your lawyer.

Should be a sign over the door - "lower your expectations, all ye who enter here." That way you'd remember that it was price and availability that brought you.

[Teamcasa]

How true that is! Dave

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[Teamcasa]

"CW"

Yeah, like you've never had to do that!

Dave

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[Sailaway]

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:01:40 -0700, "Teamcasa" wrote:

Leuf wrote: >When you ask a tool to do a job it wasn't intended to do, guess what, >it doesn't perform well. If you take a cheap a tool to an expensive >piece of wood and wreck it you're an idiot, not for buying the tool >but for having happen exactly what you'd expect to happen and then >blaming the tool. If you feel like your tools are holding you back >then by all means get a better tool for the task at hand. But don't >insinuate that anyone who doesn't spend as much on tools as you >doesn't care about the quality of their work as much as you do. >

When I was a kid my father and one of my uncles as amateur woodworkers made some of the most beautiful and durable furniture pieces using what I would consider Harbor Freight quality tools. They did buy what *they* considered at the time the *Cadillac* of power tools - Craftsman (table saw, band saw, drill press, etc.). I still have and use some of those old tools and they work just fine. In fact, I would pit my Craftsman tablesaw against most other table saws I've seen until you get up into spending thousands. It cuts as well with its 3/4 rated horsepower as any

2 to 3 HP saw I've seen, and is just as accurate after I finally got it all tuned up. The old Craftsman hand plane works well after tuning, and even the old Stanley Block plane with the big open crack down the side works really well. And that plane was not one of the better Stanley's. My father's chisels and plane irons were always sharpened with a file. So I guess for *most* hand tools and power tools, if you take care to tune it and use it properly, it will usually work just fine. Hell, I've got a toolbox full of metal tools I've made by hand, frequently with a file and hacksaw that work just fine, so you don't always need high-cost store bought tools to do high quality work. In fact when I buy tools, whether hand or power tools, I *expect* to spend some time to tune it before use. But then, *many* expensive tools are not much better, as evidenced by the responses here. Just one case in point - When I purchased one of the ubiquitous 14" Chiwanese bandsaws, I wanted to tune it, so off came the top wheel to shim it. That's when I noticed 2 things - a. the mounting shaft was a shouldered shaft (the nut runs up onto the shoulder of the bolt rather than the bearing), and b. the bearings did not have a compression sleeve between them. This of course is not good for the bearings, and is a design flaw. So out comes the bearing and whip up a small metal compression sleeve, back in goes the bearings and sleeve and bolt together with the shims. (BTW, if anyone here has shimmed their top wheel and has not checked this, they may be putting significant side load on the bearings which may result in premature wearout)

BTW, forty to fifty years after those pieces of furniture were built, most are still in daily use in the homes of my siblings and cousins (and some were handed down to their kids) and are as beautiful and as strong as when they were new.

[Teamcasa]

That's true, but somewhat naive. You can't carry every "proper tool for each and every job" with you everywhere you go. Try reparing a bent lower control arm on a one ton truck 150 miles into Mexico.

Dave

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[Ron Magen]

FWIW . . .

ever been to Williamsburg, or 'Old Sturbridge' ?? In a lot of cases the pieces on display have that time frame beat by a good bit. If memory serves, some may even be original.

ALL of the pieces, 'reproduction' or not, were/are made with exact copies of the same tools that were used in the 1700's. 'Power Tool' then meant the strength of the Artisan's arm.

Regards, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop

SNIP

[Brian Henderson]

Yup, their cheap brad nailers are amazingly good, especially for the price. Everyone raves about them, I haven't been able to break one yet and for the price, I could buy a dozen of them for the price of one Paslode or Senco.

[Sailaway]

Ron Magen wrote: FWIW . . .

ever been to Williamsburg, or 'Old Sturbridge' ?? In a lot of cases the pieces on display have that time frame beat by a good bit. If memory serves, some may even be original.

ALL of the pieces, 'reproduction' or not, were/are made with exact copies of the same tools that were used in the 1700's. 'Power Tool' then meant the strength of the Artisan's arm.

Regards, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop

SNIP

I've been to Williamsburg, but not Sturbridge. I have always admired the level of craftsmanship those people got/get using what looks like pretty crude tools. So yeah, cheap tools sometimes aren't worth the paper used to wrap them in for shipping, but sometimes the problem is the operator.