Grizzly cabinet saw -- which one?

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I don't buy your "safety" argument. In this case, logic would suggest that if the wood feeding through the misaligned blade is producing severe pressure against the fence that you would PREFER that the fence moves. The alternative is that the blade bends, binds and BANG!
There really shouldn't be enough sideways force against the fence to deflect it unless you are supplying it. It is under your control. I think that one is more likely to forget to lock the fence tightly than they are to feed wood with enough sideways force to skew the typical bies style fence.
In general simpler is better.
That said, I once built a table and a fence for a bench type saw. The fence was a t-square type, but because it was made out of aluminum angle stock and was 4 feet long it REQUIRED that the tail end be clamped down. Not to get good alignment, but to make sure it was not going to move around. It was rather whippy. This points out that each type has it's merits.
-Jack
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deflection is a problem in either case.

Most are Craftsman. Need I say more.. LOL
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wrote in message> I don't think fence

I had a 1973 Model, (Emerson Electric) Craftsman that I used for years. Granted, the fence was hard to adjust, but once it was fine-tuned, it worked (and is still working )fine. My son uses it, now. The key was to completely release the locking mechanism, so that there was absolutely no drag on the away lock. If there was any drag, or heavy buildup of sawdust on the back rail, it *could* be locked out of parallel.
My father has a 1953 Craftsman Table saw with a micro-adjustable fence. I have NO idea who made the saw or the fence. The fence had a knob that engaged a toothed rail and made for absolutely minute adjustments. It's still working fine, today, and has stood up to fifty years of cabinet-making.
I don't buy in to this all-Craftsman-tools-are-crap "conventional wisdom". Because, it's not true. I dislike modern Craftsman routers, because they are ungainly, unbalanced, ackward, and ugly. That said, I have TWO 20-year-old Craftsman routers (and Skill, and Bosch), that are quite adequate.
James....
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worked
Mine was an 83 model and would be parallel unill the rear clamping finger pulled the fence out of parallel.

No doubt... the "OLD" Craftsman machines were pretty good.

Agreed. But most the new stuff in the last 20 years has not been up to par.
I had an 86 Craftsman jointer that was crap and have an 87 Band Saw that holds it won although I would like to replace it.
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using
You know, that's a CRAP STATEMENT if there ever was one. The KEY CRITERIA to square cuts is having a quality saw fence and rails SET UP PROPERLY. I have an Excalibur saw fence and guide (WHICH IS SET UP PROPERLY) and it gives perfect cuts. It rides on the rail easily and the fact that it locks down at the FRONT AND BACK means that there's no way in hell that the stock will cause the fence to skew. UNLIKE THE POSSIBILITY OF IT HAPPENING WITH FRONT LOCKING ONLY FENCES. The notion that the rear clamping force of a front and back clamping fence is likely to pull it out of alignment is RIDICULOUS. You could just as easily apply the same statement to front only locking fences. In fact, it's MORE LIKELY THAT IT WILL HAPPEN. With front only locking fences, any inconsistency will be magnified down the length of the fence.
And don't hand me any shit that Excalibur, or my Excalibur is the exception. It's a matter of setup and nothing else. SO, YOU CAN TAKE YOUR STATEMENT AND SHOVE IT.
And yeah, if you're wondering, YOUR CRAP STATEMENT is just that, C R A P.
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to
No that is a true statement. While I agree that a key to making good clean cuts is having a quality fence properly set up, may I remind you that Craftsman probably has sold more TS's than any one and their fences for a very long time have been rear locking also.. The fences were crap and did not consistantly lock down parallel to the blade.

gives
at
Well, Excaliber makes up some of the other small percentage of rear locking fences that do work the way they should. But, there are very few Excalibur fences out there compared to the rear locking Craftsman fences.
The notion that the rear clamping force of a front and

I agree, they should not pull the fence out of alignment but they do.

fences.
WHAT?
exception.
AND
Look slick you can ignore the the facts or continue to live in your dream world.
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Leon,
Just pointing out that he can do both. :-)
Jack
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LOL! Couldn't have said it better myself. Help him make up his mind so he can think about it some more. Hurry up and wait, eh? :)
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wrote:

If you've got the spare cash, the higher horsepower of the cabinet saw is good to have. Keep in mind a few things:
The Grizz may not carry the same resale percentage as a Unisaw or Powermatic, should you decide you're not a woodworker. I'm not saying that it isn't as good a saw, only Grizzly lacks the brand recognition that's often necessary when selling a used item.
You're going to need a LOT of stuff as a newbie. Sit down and really think out where all of your near term dollars are going before you drop the dough on this saw.
Barry
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B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

Shhhhhh! If he does that, he may run screaming back to stamp collecting!
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Let's not forget about that! <G>
Barry
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:

=========================================================It was only yesterday that I surveyed my "stock" of lumber... oh boy it may be a lean Christmas around my home this year... LOL
I retired in 1998 and while I was working managed to hord enough lumber to last me at least 20 years into my retirement...
well I was wrong...
I blew thru my "hord" in less then 3 years and restocked my shop sometime in 2002 with only a couple 1000 bf of lumber. And as of yesterday that is getting a little "low".
I may end up with a hell of a lot of good woodworking machinary and no lumber at the rate I am going...
Got to go pull up the spread sheet and redo the "retirement" budget...1st thing to go is my wives clothing budget... opps if that went I may not even think about woodworking anymore... hell of an idea !
Bob Griffiths
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Maybe you can get her to foot the materials for a project _she_ wants. I'm sure she wouldn't know that her new nightstand didn't need 250 bf of lumber. <G>
Barry
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BobAtVandy wrote:

I'm not going to argue...but I'll give you my thoughts...
I have a Delta CS (circa 92) with 28" Unifence. The fence is accurate. The saw runs smoothly. I can cut through 2 1/2" of oak without hesitation with a cheap carbide blade. It is not the weak link in my workshop and probably never will be.
I used a Unisaw for the first time yesterday (taking a class). While it is clearly a heavier-duty saw, I don't think it would improve my results.
my 2cents Chris
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Chris Merrill
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I'm a newbie also considering a Grizzly contractor saw as my first large tool purchase. Don't think I can stretch the budget for the cabinet saw. I have a question about this discussion thread.
Lurking for a while I have seen lots of specific reasons why a benchtop saw is not as good (quality of materials, construction, size). However, not much detail about why a cabinet saw is so much better than the contractor's saw. Any further detail is appreciated. I know a better motor and better dust collection are positives, but what is different about the two saws that makes the quality and work results better? Any opinions about how much better? Thanks.
- Al
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Because it's much heavier, a cabinet saw is usually not as prone to vibration as a contractor's saw. It's more likely to have longer guide rails, cast iron table top, longer extension wings, often made of cast iron, and not the lighter stamped metal that many contractor's saws have. The fence is also more likely to be solid and of better quality. A 3hp motor is much more common on a cabinet saw. Of course, there's exceptions to all these things, but they are mostly true in my opinion.
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This looks like as good a place as any to jump in and ask a question that has been nagging at me while following this thread...
What about when the line starts getting a lot less distinct? I'm looking at say, a Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw vs a Grizzly 1022ProZ contractor saw. Both have cast iron tops, solid cast iron wings, basically identical fence options, etc. The 1022ProZ is pretty much already as tricked out as it gets for a CS, w/ Bies clone fence, machined pulleys, link belts, dust port, etc. so the normal 'upgrade' costs associated w/ a CS are minimized. Still need a better splitter/guard assembly, but so does the 1023.
So what exactly is the benefit of the cabinet saw vs the contractor saw in this case? If a person needs to stay w/ 110v for whatever reason, he doesn't gain any power w/ the 1023, as it is also 2HP, just like the 1022ProZ. If 220 is an option, a jump from 2hp to 3 is available, but I wonder just how much difference that really matters for most people, judging by the number of people who can get by quite nicely on 1.5HP contractor saws. Similarly, how much accuracy are we really talking about as an improvement here? I'm currently having some accuracy problems w/ a Sears Craftsman CS, but thats a separate issue, and appears to be overcomeable w/o too much problem.
Just wondering...
TIA,
nuk
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To me, I believe that I notice a LOT of difference in accuracy. I expect that it is beacuse it is "easier" to make a cut with 3 HP than 1-1/2 hp. That in its self makes a difference.

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wrote:

I've noticed that the quality and condition of the blade makes more difference than the horsepower on anything equal to or less than 5/4.
Barry
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Beg to differ but I think i can see a difference. I put a junker blade onmy unisaw when ripping/crosscutting waste 2x4's or 2x6's and it never slows down. I KNOW it is dull; that's why I use it. Like I said, it is a junker. But it'll cut nails and stuff and you never know it. I also use a Bies splitter.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:27:25 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .

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