Because it's much heavier, a cabinet saw is usually not as prone to vibration as a contractor's saw. It's more likely to have longer guide rails, cast iron table top, longer extension wings, often made of cast iron, and not the lighter stamped metal that many contractor's saws have. The fence is also more likely to be solid and of better quality. A 3hp motor is much more common on a cabinet saw. Of course, there's exceptions to all these things, but they are mostly true in my opinion.
This looks like as good a place as any to jump in and ask a question that has been nagging at me while following this thread...
What about when the line starts getting a lot less distinct? I'm looking at say, a Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw vs a Grizzly 1022ProZ contractor saw. Both have cast iron tops, solid cast iron wings, basically identical fence options, etc. The 1022ProZ is pretty much already as tricked out as it gets for a CS, w/ Bies clone fence, machined pulleys, link belts, dust port, etc. so the normal 'upgrade' costs associated w/ a CS are minimized. Still need a better splitter/guard assembly, but so does the 1023.
So what exactly is the benefit of the cabinet saw vs the contractor saw in this case? If a person needs to stay w/ 110v for whatever reason, he doesn't gain any power w/ the 1023, as it is also 2HP, just like the
1022ProZ. If 220 is an option, a jump from 2hp to 3 is available, but I wonder just how much difference that really matters for most people, judging by the number of people who can get by quite nicely on 1.5HP contractor saws. Similarly, how much accuracy are we really talking about as an improvement here? I'm currently having some accuracy problems w/ a Sears Craftsman CS, but thats a separate issue, and appears to be overcomeable w/o too much problem.Just wondering...
TIA,
nuk
Interesting take on it. From where I stand (dealing w/ the aggravation of a Sears Craftsman 10" CS, and eyeballing something more) it makes a reasonable amount of sense. What I don't get is why you have to flip the top off to align the saw? Am I missing something here in the overall picture of things? I figured a person would just stick a socket on a long extension up from below, loosen the trunnion mounting bolts a tad, and nudge the mount around a tad, either w/ a lever of some kind (i.e. 2x4) or something like the PALS system, and then tighten things back down. Might be a little tricky if you've put the saw in a mobile base/bench setup, but still not sure I see the need for flipping it over?
TIA,
nuk
To me, I believe that I notice a LOT of difference in accuracy. I expect that it is beacuse it is "easier" to make a cut with 3 HP than
1-1/2 hp. That in its self makes a difference.
Looks like these are the differences:
Three belts vs. one belt. Larger hand wheels Larger and heavier trunion Stronger motor mount Heavier miter gauge.
Certainly one can align it just as accurately. Perhaps it will stay in tune for as long, but the heavier construction of the CS will limit vibration more and an extra 50% more horse power will help no matter what you are cutting. I kind of like the enclosed base as well.
-Jack
On Tue 12 Aug 2003 06:09:40p, "JackD" wrote in news:bhbs3l$329$ snipped-for-privacy@news01.intel.com:
The enclosed base means better dust control, I think.
One thing nobody's mentioned: do the better cabinet saws lock the height and angle adjustments? I haven't had any trouble with my Griz 1022 losing its height like my first saw, a used Craftsman would. I swear that thing would move up and down when I tried to make a dado.
But I'd kinda like to have some sort of locking mechanism for the height, now that I've had some time to think about it. Which saws, if any, do that?
Dan
I think every cabinet saw I've seen has a locking knob for the height/angle The 1023 does and I think you could consider it a low end cabinet saw..
-Jack
Buy the G1023S - it's a great saw. Spend the money you saved on a good alignment tool, a good blade, and material to build a right-side extension table and a "large" outfeed table (at least 4' square). You'll never regret spending a little extra on a cabinet saw rather than buying a contractor's saw. (I know. I started out with a contractor's saw with a poor-excuse-for-a-fence. It was hard to align and impossible to trust. I sold that and bought a Uni-Saw. Knowing what I know now about blades and proper alignment, I would be very happy to have a G1023S instead of the Uni-Saw.)
As far as right-tilt versus left-tilt goes, I prefer right-tilt so that I can use the < $300 sliding table for cross-cutting. It works great.
Compare them on a one by one basis, as there are wide variations between saws labelled as contractor's saws.
Some contractor's saws have the same cast iron wings, Bessy fences, etc... as cabinet saws. However, these guys will set you back $700-800, maybe more.
The dust collection issue is easily helped by a velcro mounted hardboard plate over the back, with clearance holes as required. The plate gets removed to tilt the blade. With a zero clearance insert, _all_ table saws spray a lot of dust out the top.
Vibrations can be minimized on a contractor's saw with a link belt, and sand bags over the legs. Without the sandbags, I can stand a nickel on edge while my Jet is running, so I didn't bother with them.
I have not seen a contractor saw with more than 2 HP, most are 1 1/2 HP, so the horsepower contest clearly goes to the 3-5 HP cabinet saw.
Barry
A cabinet saw is great if you get into that much cabinet or carcass
OK your newbyness is really showing here... ;~) A cabinet saw was not named for the type work it is used for. You can build cabinets with any TS. A cabinet saw's name describes the CABINET that surrounds the guts of the saw.
A little more lack of experience here. 95% of the time a front lock only fence is going to be the most accurate. Most front and rear lock fences will not lock down parallel to the blade every time. If you are having a problem with the blade forcing the fence to move, your saw is not set up correctly. Yours may be the only exception if you are getting shiney smooth cuts using the front and back lock style fence.
I don't think fence deflection is a problem in either case.
However, *my* Shop Fox Fence locks down perfectly parallel every time. What's your source for the astonding assertion that "most front and rear lock fences will not"?
James...
You know, that's a CRAP STATEMENT if there ever was one. The KEY CRITERIA to square cuts is having a quality saw fence and rails SET UP PROPERLY. I have an Excalibur saw fence and guide (WHICH IS SET UP PROPERLY) and it gives perfect cuts. It rides on the rail easily and the fact that it locks down at the FRONT AND BACK means that there's no way in hell that the stock will cause the fence to skew. UNLIKE THE POSSIBILITY OF IT HAPPENING WITH FRONT LOCKING ONLY FENCES. The notion that the rear clamping force of a front and back clamping fence is likely to pull it out of alignment is RIDICULOUS. You could just as easily apply the same statement to front only locking fences. In fact, it's MORE LIKELY THAT IT WILL HAPPEN. With front only locking fences, any inconsistency will be magnified down the length of the fence.
And don't hand me any shit that Excalibur, or my Excalibur is the exception. It's a matter of setup and nothing else. SO, YOU CAN TAKE YOUR STATEMENT AND SHOVE IT.
And yeah, if you're wondering, YOUR CRAP STATEMENT is just that, C R A P.
It's a prejudiced and elitist opinion of the "front only locking fence" group. The fact that front only locking fences have the majority of the market only amplifies that elitist opinion. It's just like Microsoft; they may or may not have a better product, but they do have a superior marketing machine.
Have to agree about Billy Bob Gates and his Microspend Corp...
BUT when it comes to Fences...I have my opinions that have been formed over quite a few years and those opinions put me into the FRONT Lock group...
All I can say on this subject is that I personally have had way too many problems with Fences that locked down both front and back...
This is not saying that "some ..or even most" do not lock down correctly every time... All I am saying is that I have ran into that problem way too many times, with too many brands of these fences...
Since I can avoid the problem entirely by using a Front Lock fence thats what I use...
Left Tilt, Right Tilt, front lock down, dual lock down, Forrest vs Freud Delta vs Jet..Powermatic vs General... WE ALL HAVE OUR PERSONAL opinions on each subjsct...
Bob Griffiths
Most are Craftsman. Need I say more.. LOL
No, most Craftsman TS's have a front and back lock fence and there are probably more Craftsman TS's out there than any thing else. Their double lock fences are notorious for not locking down parallel to the blade.
No that is a true statement. While I agree that a key to making good clean cuts is having a quality fence properly set up, may I remind you that Craftsman probably has sold more TS's than any one and their fences for a very long time have been rear locking also.. The fences were crap and did not consistantly lock down parallel to the blade.
Well, Excaliber makes up some of the other small percentage of rear locking fences that do work the way they should. But, there are very few Excalibur fences out there compared to the rear locking Craftsman fences.
The notion that the rear clamping force of a front and
I agree, they should not pull the fence out of alignment but they do.
Look slick you can ignore the the facts or continue to live in your dream world.
Leon,
Just pointing out that he can do both. :-)
Jack
Actually you are going to have a rear rail with a Bies fence. A Bies fence needs a smooth right table to support the fence and almost always a rear rail is needed to help support the weight of the right table and fence. This is especially true with the wider 50" capacity fences. That said, the rear rail falls below the table surface and cannot be seen from the front of the saw and the fence does not ride on the real rail.
As far as out feed tables go, there should be no problems with a Bies style rear rail. I personally have the Jet version of the Bies fence and it too has the rear rail but is a non-issue for the out feed.
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