Glue Test In Fine WoodWorking

I stopped subscribing to it a long time ago; now the only woodworking magazine I receive is WoodenBoat. But, when I see a copy of FWW on the rack I usually thumb thru it, and rarely buy one.
The Aug 07 issue is one I bought. They have a number of articles I'm interested in this time, and a very interesting article about testing glues.
There were three woods involved: white Oak, hard maple, ipe (ipe used instead of teak, because the lumberyard owner hears many complaints about glue failure with it). Three fits were fits, tight, snug, loose. The joint used was a bridle joint (open morise-and-tenon) because it has no mechanical strength, relies only on the glue.
The glues in order of averate strangth, strongest to weakest: Type I PVA glue (Titebond III tested), slow-set epoxy (system Three), Pva glue (Elmer's yellow carpenter glue), liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue), traditional hide glue (J. E. Moser's), polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue).
Some of the results were pretty surprising, and goes way against what a lot of people accept as fact. Definitely interesting. If you don't subscribe, I'd suggest at least thumbing thru this issue, at least. Hopefully, they'll put the article on their website later on.
As for me, I'll be sticking with my all time favorite, titebond II. For now at any rate.
I'd tried a pllyurehane glue, once. Wasn't thrilled with it at all. Even so, still surprised at ow gorilla Glue came in on the testing. Only came out looking reasonably well on couple of the tests.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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Elmer's for me. Glad to know it's #3 on the list.
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J T wrote:

There was some previous discussion about this article in this group:
http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.woodworking/browse_frm/thread/e3debd7c12bad086/b3891c23360d41bd?#b3891c23360d41bd
Chris
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Wed, Aug 1, 2007, 10:33am (EDT-2) snipped-for-privacy@mail.usask.ca (ChrisFriesen) doth sayeth: There was some previous discussion about this article in this group: <snip>
Oh my goodness gracious, if I'd known that I never would have posted. I know that people try to never post on the same subject twice here.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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For me, Titebond II as well. One gallon lasted me about 3 years, still good to the last drop though a little thick.
Check this out on the joint torture test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLfb7m9Fug

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Wed, Aug 1, 2007, 12:23pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@xyz.net (**Frank**) doth sayeth: For me, Titebond II as well. One gallon lasted me about 3 years, still good to the last drop though a little thick. <snip>
Just add a little water, and shake. Works for me; in fact I may have gotten that from the Franklin folks.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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If you can stifle your groans at the mention of His name, but is that why the Normster uses acetone on teak just before gluing it up?
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I have used a lot of gorilla glue myself. mainly because of all of the oily woods I use. I have not used epoxy because of the hassle and that it needs to be applied to both sides. but I tested glues and gorilla glued ipe and other oily woods far better then yellow glue did. surface prep made a big difference. from the arguments on these tests no clamps were used so that really can screw up the results.
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Thu, Aug 2, 2007, 9:47am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@knight-toolworks.com (Steveknight) doth sayeth: I have used a lot of gorilla glue myself. mainly because of all of the oily woods I use. I have not used epoxy because of the hassle and that it needs to be applied to both sides. but I tested glues and gorilla glued ipe and other oily woods far better then yellow glue did. surface prep made a big difference. from the arguments on these tests no clamps were used so that really can screw up the results.
Nope, no clamps. I dunno Steve, I think you might want to look over the article. I didn't see the article itself on-line, didn't bother looking either, but the magazine article says there's videos on the testing on-line.
Surfaces prepped according to manufacture suggestions.
JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them. - Picasso
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I just tried ipe with the recommended yellow glue it still does worse then gorilla glue. but gorilla did not do perfectly either. I have had joints break using it too. but it is not as critical as I build my planes a different way now.
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Steve knight wrote:

I've used very little ipe so no real experience to pass on. I'd think would be a place for the rsorcinol two-piece glues, maybe?
I've never been very satisfied w/ the urethanes for anything, frankly.
I did notice there are several letters to the editors on the article in the last FWW taking them to task for several things -- the basic answer was on the lines of my main complaint -- "Well, it would have been too much work to do <whatever>..." The problem of a magazine trying to undertake what really should be a longterm research project and make it fit a cover story format. Just doesn't work well.
--
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dpb wrote:

Seems to me that some classes of research could be conducted in a "contrulled service utilization" format. They have furniture in their offices, desks, tables, chairs, etc. So replace the factory made stuff with test articles. Glue up the drawers with one side using one kind of glue and the other using another, that sort of thing, keep careful records, and after five or ten or thirty years they'll know if any particular glue is having problems with that particular kind of wood.
In one sense it's not as good as a laboratory full of test specimens being carefully aged and loaded under controlled conditions, but in another it would be a good "reality check" on the lab results.
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--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

Certainly one way to approach it. There is a pretty good body of evidence that hide glue works pretty well for many applications, for example, and that "regular old wood glue" is quite strong enough for edge joining from that kind of experience...
Two things I'd note (neither intended as criticism, just noting...
First, there is a significant amount of research from the FPL and other organizations available under controlled testing which addresses much of the questions the FWW article was after.
Second, for anything other than the casual woodworker or ordinary production, the question posed to these people or the manufacturers can often be addressed for specific situations. For specialty applications or high volume situations it may well be worth such an effort.
--


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<snip>

In five years, there will be three new formulations of the product, for five different reasons, and all will suffice for holding stuff together for generations to come.
There are just too many other things that really 'need knowing'...
Patriarch
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