Delta DJ-20 question

[krw]

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know that from the article.

[dpb]

On 3/17/2014 4:21 PM, Bill wrote: ...

There's no indication they're not as good or better afaik...I've certainly heard no upswell of discontent w/ PM since.

The consumer/small commercial market is a _very_ tough one though with the advent of all the imports.

[Bill]

What you can rely on, I think, is that the new products will be "better engineered". Give me one of the old ones please.

[woodchucker]

You have to remember that Jet does more than just woodworking. They have large machines for metal and these are their market lines:

AIR TOOLS HAND TOOLS LIFTING SYSTEMS METALWORKING SHOP TOOLS WAREHOUSE & DOCK WOODWORKING

[Bill]

Gosh, with all of that on their plate, going after SawStop must seem akin to going after Intel with hopes of a competitive microprocessor design. The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The world can' have too many of those! ; )

[none]

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit? And, that is frequently consolidation and/or efficiency improvements of some type aka cutbacks.

But, as you say, the article gives limited information.

[krw]

Huh? You have it backwards.

You're making no sense.

[woodchucker]

Agreed.

Yep...

[krw]

Isn't that the purpose of a corporation? With a public, for profit, corporation (this isn't), it's the law.

Frequently, it's the acquisition of a company in trouble, by a company with deeper pockets, too.

[Scott Lurndal]

But when a private equity company takes a company private, they do it as a LBO - they create massive debt to pay the current shareholders.

Then they rake off the cream, and after a while, they re-IPO (or shutdown) the company that they took private. The newly public company is saddled with tremendous debt that the private equity company never actually paid off, and often forces the new company into bankruptcy after a period of time, when they can't pay off the debt. (And the cost to service the debt directly impacts the cash flow, reducing R&D opportunities. It's a downward spiral).

That may be good for the private equity company, but is not so good for the employees or customers of the firm that they took private.

[krw]

Maybe. Where were the terms of the acquisition written in the article?

You're assuming a lot, based on your obvious prejudice.

[dpb]

Isn't that the primary motive for any business?

We seem to have evolved into a way of thinking that businesses exist to serve some philanthropic purpose and provide employment and benefits irregardless of anything else rather than that those are simply side products of the operation of a business.

One thing I've noticed that happened clear back when or shortly after P-C bought Delta is that they quite buying advertising in FWW. One would think that would be a prime place to try to sell higher-priced ww gear but I guess they thought the high cost of the space doesn't bring enough reward.

Hadn't really thought about if for a while, I just looked; I don't see any at all in the last several issues, either. PM is still there w/ a full-page spread or one of the inside covers every issue, however, as well as Jet. But, it's clear the printed copy is waning with emphasis shifting to electronic--it's not what it was even a few years ago.

[Bill]

I was being sarcastic. I don't think we need more miter saws in the consumer marketplace. In an article, the company explicitly mentioned room for expansion in that area of their specialization. It didn't say anything about table saws.

Bill

[woodchucker]

They already produce an ugly tablesaw. I saw it at woodcraft last year, the new cabinet saw... fit and finish were awful. I was very un-impressed.

[none]

Really? Seems to me that anyone you disagree with is a lefty. I could say that you're so far right, that everyone else is a lefty, but, I don't want to start a another disagreement or fight. :)

[none]

You're right of course. I guess it's just the expectation or maybe just the want to see some sense of altruism from the people and businesses that exist in our society. But then, maybe I'm just too much of a lefty as krw frequently reminds me. :)

[none]

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:35:59 -0400, woodchucker

Nothing new about ugly tools. Look at the market for garish tools that attract new or uninformed woodworkers. It's like rats drawn to peanut butter. Look at the Hitachi tools that resemble transmogrified running shoes.

[woodchucker]

I'm in the same camp as you. I expect people to have a quality product and want to sell it to make money. I think people who want to make money and sell shit as gold are themselves shit.

So I must be a lefty. My dad owned a business. He always said I'd rather have a hundred small customers who appreciate my work, than one or two big customers who ruled me. If one goes away, you are screwed.

So pricing your work is important, trying not to rape people is important. Doing quality work is important. There are a lot of businesses out there that don't abide by this. They are out there to rape the customer.. I choose to rake them over the coals for their poor business practice.

I guess I'm a lefty too.

[krw]

No, but you two certainly are. You're stupid enough to make four run-of-the-mill lefties, like Biden.

Q: Why do you lefties hate being called what you are? It's not the name that you should be embarrassed about.

[krw]

More proof: lefties are incapable of telling the truth.