Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

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Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.
As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

P D Q
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My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters. My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after a 1 hour cutting routine.
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My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters. My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after a 1 hour cutting routine.
The theory of the cyclone is like a cream separator, the heavy stuff falls to the bottom and the light stuff keeps on going (like that rabbit). All you get is a little more fun before the dump.
Probably will not make much of an impact on the MDF and acrylic. I would suggest a hepa filter for that stuff. Not good to suck it down the wind pipe.
P D Q
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friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.

or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

Don't confuse the "cyclone lids" with a real cyclone separator. I have only a vacuum setup, with the mini cyclone from clearvuecyclones. Before I was using a lid from Lee Valley. There's at least an order of magnitude difference between the two as far as getting the fines. Hooked up to my drum sander the lid may as well have not been there. Maybe a couple hours and the filter would be fully caked. With the cyclone I can go a month or more without even thinking about the filter, and even then I'm cleaning it long before it even gets to that fully caked point. I probably won't clean it all winter, cuz it's freaking cold outside and I don't have to. And there is NOTHING in the bottom of the vacuum, unless I let the cyclone overflow. And you can literally let it fill up completely to the top before anything comes out.
If you haven't used one you really don't understand just how effective they are. I think if Rob Lee tested that thing he'd stop selling the lids and start selling the real thing.
-Kevin
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What you say about the "garbage can" variety is right. Only a serious collector is in the 98 % territory. A back yard guy can get by quite nicely with or without one of the can lids.
P D Q

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PDQ wrote:

It's a centrifugal separator. In this case "the light stuff" is air molecules and "the heavy stuff" is everything else.

A good properly desigend cyclone has a HEPA filter with a tenth the pore size of the ones that you use on ordinary dust collectors.
The reason I put one in in the first place was MDF. End up with a main collector full of MDF dust, the little one under the filters hardly sees anything.
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J. Clarke wrote:

I get so much MDF dust in the drum, I created a shop made bag holder to install plastic bags. Dumping the drum was gross.
The bag holder is simply a garbage can that fits inside the drum, with the bottom cut out. I install the bag, put in the can, and work... At dump time, I pull out the can, close the bag, and repeat.
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B A R R Y wrote:

Neat. I gotta do something like that at some point. The drum on mine is small, since the whole thing has to fit under a 7 foot ceiling, so it's not that big a deal to take it outside to dump, but it's still gross with MDF. With the Argentinian hardwoods that I used to be able to get from CWG though it was a treat--still a lot of dust but it smelled _incredible_.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Even a slightly over-sized plastic can slit down the side should work.
The bag makes a HUGE difference.
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PDQ wrote:

You can have the pacific ocean for a collector but if the filters clog in an hour that doesn't do you any good.
If "a lot of that" is getting to the filters it's a crappy cyclone.

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PDQ wrote:

planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

That's why John said "properly designed".
My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last three months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.
I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander, so I get plenty of "fine" dust. It's really obvious just by looking in the drum how much fine dust the drum catches.
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I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?
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Robatoy wrote

I'd say so.
I don't have a meter anymore, so I can't measure it. @ 10 feet, it's comparable to my DC1200, at a much lower pitch. The main note on the 3100ck is down in the 100Hz area. The ductwork makes more noise than it did before, as the blast gates whistle a bit.
If JDS "A" weighted the measurement, it's EASILY 78, as all of the noise from the actual unit is low frequency. You can actually talk over it.
It reminds me of firing up a large system with only the subs running. You could talk, but there was an extremely annoying rumbling distraction in the background.
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And then you have to change your Depends.
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-MIKE-

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-MIKE- wrote:

You might! <G>
One of the systems I used on a regular basis had a full boat of Servo Drives...
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wrote:

or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

I had a real interesting discussion here about "sound suppressors" a few years ago, don't know if you remember it.. I was trying to figure out how the DC muffler from Penn State could lower the DB's 7 to 10 db's for "up to a 50% reduction".. Sounded like snake oil to me, so I asked here and got lots of answers that used math to explain it and were beyond my understanding.. Then, someone (Dr. Deb?) said that they had one and it lowered it nicely..
I bought one and was really amazed at the difference... Cheap "2 hp" DC from Harbor Freight, went from shouting to someone next to you to talking in an almost normal tone..
Got explained to me later in terms that I could understand.. Something about taking even a few DB off the top lowers the "annoying" level quite a bit.. Anyway, works for me and I'd never run a DC without one now.. YMWV
mac
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wrote:

Hey mac!
The scale for dB is logarithmic - I think that each increase of 1 means 10 times more, just as the Richter scale for earthquakes. Better look at wikipedia for more info. How come you need a reduction of 7 to 10 dB for 50% reduction is not immediately clear, unless we have to go back to the Bel decibel is 1/10 of a Bel). Then 10 dB=1 B, or a factor 2. But maybe I need more coffee, and then advice from DIL, who teaches physics in a high school.
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Han
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Han wrote:

In the Decibel scale, a 3 dB reduction equates to a reduction by 1/2. dB scale is logarithmic. Depending upon whether one is converting from power or not, the conversion from linear scale to logarithmic scale is either dB = 10 * log10(P) or dB = 20 * log10(A).
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[...snip...]

But in human perception terms, according to audio textbooks I have, a 3 db increase is generally perceived as just noticeable, and a 10 db increase is perceived as twice as loud.

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Correct. I recall this being demonstrated to me many years ago as a trainee with the BBC. It is just noticeable on a steady tone but almost never on "program"

Noticeably louder certainly but whether twice as loud depends on individual perception.
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Stuart Winsor

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
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