Dust collection/Cyclone lid

[Keith]

Like most other people I'm continually trying to find ways to improve the dust situation in my small shop. Right now I have a King dust collector installed with 4" piping to the tools that does a pretty good job (similar to Delta/jet etc.). In their catalog, Lee Valley lists cyclone lids that fit trash cans and from what they say I'm thinking it's an easier way to "take out the garbage" plus I wouldn't have to empty/clean the collector dust bags as often and it would mean an even more efficient system. On the negative side it might mean more demand on the air suction to the collector. Here's what they say:

"Capacity is a problem in every dust collection system, but particularly in small shop systems. This cyclone lid will let you sidetrack up to 99% of jointer/planer shavings and lesser amounts of fine dust (such as from sanding) to a barrel or trashcan. It lets you convert a standard shop vacuum into a high-capacity dust collector. In fact, if your shop vacuum draws 6 amps or more, you can use it with our dust collection network to power a complete collection system. If you have a lower-powered vacuum (less than 6 amps), you can still use it with the cyclone on a single machine, such as a planer."

I would use this with my current system between the trash can cyclone and the input to the collector...... Has anyone tried this and if so, what do you think ??

Keith P

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

I'm a little confused by your plan. My understanding of the usual setup is that people put one of these cyclone lids / trashcans between their dust collector and their sawdust producing tool. Aside from allowing an easier way to dump most of your waste, it protects your collector's impellor by snatching the chips before they hit the impellor's blades. Only the finest of dust makes it to your dust collector itself; the bulk of the sawdust ends up in the trashcan.

I'm actually seriously considering doing this myself. There are several deals around for less than $300 that will provide between 1150-1500 cfm, a 1 micron bag, and wired for either 110 or 220. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to bite the bullet and get an electrician to add more 220 service to the garage.

[RKG]

I've got one on my system and it works reasonably well as long as the trash can is less than 3/4 full after that a lot of the shavings etc get carried over to the dust collector bag. Get a large plastic trash can you will get a better seal between the lid and the can, the less air you have being sucked around the lid the more efficient it will work. You still need to dump the trash can into a bag for disposal which is a bit of a pain.

Before I got the lid the grate at the inlet to the impeller on the dust collector was constantly getting plugged when I used the planer or jointer, This doesn't happen any more.

Rick

[Morris Dovey]

Keith...

I have a pair of the large cyclone lids (you can see the setup on my web site at

and it works quite well. I haven't needed to empty the DC bag since installation. (-:

[Norman D. Crow]

Absolutely! My sh^H^H^cellar is so small I still use the flex line to hook to the planer, jointer & bandsaw, but right in front of the 1HP Grizzly G8027 is a G3376(see pg. 129 in catalog). Makes a HUGE difference when jointing or planing, but you need to sort of keep an eye on it, because when the trash can gets about 2/3 full, it doesn't collect the stuff, just lets it pass through to the collector bags.

I have not noticed any decreased air flow with the separator lid. Don't remember if it has a foam gasket or not, but it seats on top of the metal garbage can very well. I did find it better to seal around the tubing with duct tape, it served a dual purpose; made them air-tight, and kept them in place in the lid.

[igor]

I could not find a plastic can that was the right size so I ended up with a traditional metal can. I did buy some basic rubber weather stripping w/ the adhesive backing and put that around the inside if the lid where it meets the can. That makes a great seal - so good that I wait for the DC to spin down before pulling off the top to check the contents.

I got mine from Grizzly for 2/3 the Lee Valley price -- $30 vs. $47 -- and now Grizzly has its on sale for less than 1/2 the LV price - $20:

so, if I had it to do over again I might spring for the extra $$ for the clear lid that Lee Valley sells. Then again, I may eventually make one so that I can get the chips to fall into one of those stiff paper leaf/line bags -- the kind that stand on their own. -- Igor

[Pounds on Wood]

Yes, they do work. Yes, they do reduce the air flow. If you consider your current air flow marginal, then you don't want one. If you think you have good flow now, then you probably will be okay.

Before you buy one, take a look at what I did here:

no longer have to transfer the chips to a curbside container. I just roll it out to the curb.

--

[Bill Stock]

Keith,

You don't say which model you have? I have the 1 HP portable King DC, which is a great little blower, but a pitiful DC. The biggest problem was the crappy little bag they give you. It created so much back pressure that the suction was zilch.

So I bought one of the replacement bags from Lee Valley and two Rubbermaid garbage cans. The bag went on can #1 with the Lee Valley strap. I also installed a 5" DC door removed) on can #1 with bolts a backing plate and lots of silicon. I then took the stand off my 1 HP blower and mounted it to an MDF plate (approx. 10") with a hole in the middle for the blower intake. I mounted the blower to this plate with the bolts that held the blower to the stand. I also routed a groove in this plate about 2" wide around the intake hole, so that the blower made a nice flush fit. Again lots of silicon. I then created a second plate out of MDF to sit on top of the garbage can with a 4" (approx.) hole cut in the center. I then cut a routed a groove in the face of this plate the same width/depth/size as the rim of garbage can #2. Plate #1 with the blower attached get screwed to plate #2 with the 4" holes aligned of course. Then plate #2 just friction fits the top of garbage can #2. I then used 3" PVC (white stuff) to make the input for can #2. I can't remember what the outside piece was called (it fit my 4" pipe outside and the elbow inside), but I used PVC glue to attach this to a

45 degree elbow inside garbage can #2. Again all siliconed up. The output of the blower (sitting on top of G can #2) goes to the input of G Can #1 of course.

This has been working great for a few months. The increase in suction was phenomenal (better bag) and I'm now collecting up my chips. There's virtually no dust escaping my TS now, whereas before I would be dusty the snowman. I made a whack of dado cuts a few weeks ago and only a small amount made it to the shop floor. The chip bucket collected about half a can of oval shaped chips about a 1/4" long.

[Keith]

Thanks All !! For all the input...Looks like I'll go with it, incorporating some of the suggestions.

In response to the various answers:

1) The $47 I quoted was in Canadian $ = 35 US$

2) Lee Valley suggest: "Our large cyclone lids were designed to fit on any round container with a top diameter between 19" and 23-1/2". The registration ledges on the inside of the lid fit on standard trashcans from 19" to 20-1/2" in diameter. The

23-1/2" dia. outer ledge fits on 45- to 55-gallon drums. Available in either black ABS or clear PET, large lids come drilled for use with either 2-1/2" or 4" dia. hose." "Since we first introduced our cyclone lid, we found that many of our customers use the cyclone lid specifically with a shop vacuum and a Rubbermaid® Roughneck® trashcan and didn't require the larger size for use with larger dust collection systems. This new smaller lid will closely fit on 20-gallon trashcans (Rubbermaid model # 2892 in USA and # 2882 in Canada). At 19-1/2" in diameter, it is more compact and has less overhang than our large lid. This lid will also fit on commonly available steel trashcans with a 16-1/2" to 17" top diameter. Available only in clear PET for use with 2-1/2" dia. hose."

3) The Kind model I have has enough air to handle a cyclone "container" between the machinery and King collector.

4) I LIKE the idea of having the chip collection before the dust collector and with the clear lid it would be simple to keep an eye on the material level.

Keith P

[Robert Galloway]

Added the trash can lid years ago. Doesn't reduce the capacity of the system that I can tell and definitely makes disposal a lot nicer. Only have to empty/clean the bags once in a blue moon.

bob g. (I also added the 0.5 micr> Keith wrote:

[Robert Galloway]

I line the trash can with a plastic bag. I was afraid it would get sucked up into the DC. Doesn't happen. I have a steel band with a spring loaded clamp around the side of the trash can which is galvanized in my case. Plastic might give a better seal, I don't know. But the bag stays down in the can and fills like you would want. You do want to empty before it's too full or everything will pass right on through.

bob g.

RKG wrote:

[Joe "Woody" Woodpecker]

I made my lid for about $20 using the plans below. The trash can lid sold is moulded from and may have some problems sealing around the lip or where the hoses go in, By using 3/4" partical board, your lid will sit and you can use hose connections through the top that you can seal.

If you have any questions, you can e-mail me at

[e-mail]

-- Woody

Check out my Web Page at:

you will find:

******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03

• * * Build a DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03

• * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03

• * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03

• * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03

• * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03

• * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03

• * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03

• * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03

[RKG]

Thanks Bob I had figured the bag would get sucked into the hoses and never tried it. I'll give that a try it would definitely save some strain on the back.

Rick

[Nick Bozovich]

Morris - How's that HF dust collector working for you? I heard good things about it from other posts. I'm targeting that for my next tool purchase. Is it quiet? Does it have good suction /volume?

Thanks -

Nick B

[igor]

bob -- I tried a plastic bag w/ my grizzly lid over a 30 gal metal trash can and the bag DID get sucked into the lid. I have an idea for a solution but have not tried it yet. Whose/what brand cyclone lid do you have? -- Igor

[patriarch]

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in news:ggHYc.22628$ [e-mail]:

Bill, that's pretty clever. You say you have a second bin, for the wife to fill with rose trimmings?

Patriarch

[Morris Dovey]

Nick...

It's my first and only dust collector - so I don't have much I can compare it to. It's definitely more quiet than my ShopVac. Its sole job is to eat the dust from a (really quiet) 5hp router usually running between 90 and 150 inches/minute (depending on bit, depth of cut, and material). I did a 3-1/2 hour continuous cutting job on a single piece of MDF a while back with the shop all closed up - and there wasn't even a detectable haze. I doubt that's exceptional behavior; but I've been happy with the performance

One of the things I like most about my cobbled-up system is that

*nothing* gets as far as the dust collector - it all ends up in the drums. FWIW, I empty the drums as soon as there's ten gallons or so of dust inside. I understand that the fuller they're allowed to become, the more dust will flow through to the DC.

I splurged to get the transparent cyclone lids and found that makes it a lot easier for a lazy person like myself to check the drums. For me, the clear tops have been worth the extra cost. B'sides, it's fun to watch 'em in action. (-8

[Nick Bozovich]

Thanks Morris - I'm about 90% sure I'm going to get the HF. Can't beat the price!! I've been using my shop vac, which really "sucks", but it's still a 2 1/2" hose, and it doesn't work to well with my jointer that has a 4" port, even with a reducer fitting. I think going 4" to 4" will improve things. I have the clear cyclone lid on a 40 gal trash can, and it works good, but the airflow is reduced off the shop vac (I'll have to get a new one for the 4" fitting). Having a bigger unit like the HF dust collector will probably help that too.

Thanks again for your input!!

Nick B

[RKG]

Tried it and the bag immediately got sucked into the hose. Also tried the weatherstripping that Igor mentioned and it seems to have improved the suction. Oh well one suggestion worked for me and one didn't, still ahead..

Rick

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Yesterday's discussion finally got me off the dime: I ordered a 1.5 HP DC2V2 dust collector along with a cyclone lid, muffler, various fittings, etc.; even a table saw overhead guard from Penn State Industries. Now all I have to do is pay for it.

Film at 11....