Hello,
A friend of mine would like me to make what amounts to a coffee table without a skirt. It would be a low table, just high enough to clear the user's legs when sitting on the floor. As such there would not be clearance for a skirt in the front. What are some alternatives for attaching the legs to the table top? The table will be used as a of computer desk, with the keyboard on top and the monitor slightly higher.
Thanks, Wayne
Wayne Whitney wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pizza.private:
I can think of about half a dozen problems with this design, but then, it isn't for me.
What I would do is, together with your friend, make a mockup in cardboard of what your friend wants. Work out size, height, top thickness, visuals, etc. When that is agreed, then we can go to work on what sort of engineering is needed for keeping the legs in proper relation to the rest of the table.
There are ways of making it work, but...
Patriarch
Well, engineering concerns may influence the design. To get the ball rolling, say the table top is to be 48" x 18" x 5/8" and is to be 12" off the ground. There should be an empty space that is 24" x 16" x 11
3/8" that is centered on one long side.The motivation is, instead of sitting cross-legged on the floor with a keyboard on your lap, have the (fairly thin) table top just above your lap, with the keyboard on top of that.
Thanks, Wayne
There are metal brackets that would screw onto the underside and then you use a hangar bolt in the top of the leg to attach it. I don't know how well it would hold up on a desk as you describe though; I've seen them used for a footstool.
Think about getting away from legs and maybe looking into pedestals or maybe some sort of frame and panel affair on each end so you have a larger attaching surface. I'd have to agree with Patriarch that a mock up would be called for.
EJ
The other day on Wood Works, David Marks made a bar stool with laminated mortise-and-tenon joinery. Your table top could be sliced up and the legs built right into it as shown in figures D and E on the following web page:
Since this does not appear to be a "fine furniture" project, and will be used for computer tasks where utility/function is usually more important than beauty, the simplest option would be the screw-in type table legs available in various lengths on the market.
The legs generally screw into metal brackets that are themselves screwed into the underside of the table top at each corner. Some of them are nicely turned, have a very modern look, work well, and a plus is that the lower the table, the more stable it is on shorter legs ... and the less chance you have of someone seeing the cheesy "non-joinery"..
Using these screw-in legs does not mean that you can't have a nicely done table top to appease/mollify the ww gods somewhat.
Engineering is the key. Table skirts offer stability in two dimensions left-right and front-back. I assume a brace running diagonally from leg to leg could offer some stability but only in one direction, so. Add a small metal brace with flat shoulders in each corner for a little stiffening. This along with the diagonal brace should be plenty for a small table. Make a prototype using just one leg on the corner of a board. Load bearing is a function of the leg cross section and material. But for side loads, ie bumping it, the attachment of the leg to the top can be very important. Think of a table with a skirt without the top, very stable. But without the skirt those loads are transfered thru the leg-top attachments. Try to think of a solution without a top in place. This will be the strongest and possibly the most visually appealling. Diagonals think diagonals Jack
That sounds like an innovative piece of specialized furniture. Maybe create a niche if you perfect it.
If I were to engineer such a table (I'm visualizing something like one of those 'breakfast in bed' type tables), I'd probably use a single, wide, piece of wood on each end for a total of 2 legs, with a sliding dovetail into the top of table frame side. Maybe cut an arch at the bottom of each leg for a little 'perdiness' and stability. For lateral support, secure a small arch to connect the end boards to the sides of the table top frame. I'd use a lighter wood like ash, and put the end legs on carpet coasters, since you have to move the table once you sit.
May also want to consider engineering some adjustability, height-wise in case the user gains a few pounds or just wants to view work a little higher or lower.
my 2 pennies,
T
Make an apron (skirt), but don't take it full width. In minimal style, these are little more than brackets.
Look at Greene & Greene, or antique Chinese furniture for the "cloud lift" shape to a rail's edge. These could be very attractive.
I happen to like the idea of running the 'skirt' (which it wouldn't be) diagonally. Put some beefy tenons on the end and you've got some strength back. In addition, make each diagonal board 'peaked' so that the tallest part of it is where the leg/tenon joinery is and the shortest is in the center where the users legs would be. Having it peaked would also make the diagonal skirt 'disappear' more quickly from view (when viewed from a distance), giving the whole piece a lighter feel.
Joe C.
I'm not really clear by what you mean by diagonally. From above, do you mean a pattern that looks like an X instead of a rectangle? I've also conceived of doing a conventional width skirt in a pattern like this:
------------------------------! ! / \ ! ! / \ ! ! / \ ! ! / \ ! !---/ \---!
Also, can a conventional skirt be turned 90 degrees so it is not so tall? Then the question arises as to how to attach the front skirt length to the two front legs. Of course, then there is more than 5/8" of thickness at the "user well", which raises the question of whether it would better to just go with a thicker table top.
As far as aesthetics, a couple comments: the idea is to make as a piece of "fine furniture" even if it fairly utilitarian. Legs are definitely preferred over end panels. Metals fasteners are OK only if completely concealed, e.g. tabletop fasteners with a conventional skirt design.
Thanks, Wayne
Then a "trestle" style table is a design to seriously consider ... if you don't know what one looks like, take a look at page 5 of projects on my website below. The legs/trestles are very adaptable to design change so you should be able to come up with something that suits your taste in this style.
Wayne Whitney wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pizza.private:
I think I might look at chair construction...aiming toward a chair with a wide, flat seat. If a chair can hold a persons weight, then a "table" built the same way should hold any reasonable load.
John
i made a coffee table out of a redwood slab. about 4" thick. no skirt.
i turned some legs from 4x4 redwood. they were the full size at the top. drilled a hole in a 4x4x1" piece of redwood. put a t-nut in it. screwed that to the bottom of the slab. screwed the screw piece of the t-nut into the top of the leg, then screwed the leg into the bottom of the slab. by insetting the 4x4x1 piece, you can't really see them unless you're at table level. if they were also turned to match the profile of the top of the leg, you'd not see them at all.
regards, charlie cave creek, az
John McCoy wrote in news:Xns95668CA8A7B6Cigopogoemailmotcom@10.0.101.90:
Well, a chair without a skirt-like structure would need to have stretchers for the legs, or all of the stress would be on the leg joints. I don't see how stretchers fit into the design plan.
But then, I've been skeptical all along of this design goal. Maybe I can't visualize the desired outcome. Wouldn't be the first time, though.
Keep trying, Wayne.
Patriarch
Hi John-
I'll tag along on your post just because I was looking for a place to drop my $.02 worth.
Another solution would be to simply built joined legs that consist of two pieces joined at 90 degrees to each other and then secured to the top with glue and screws from underneath. The legs could be tapered, or shaped in any way desired, but the point is they would offer a nice degree of rigidity and support without a skirt in both the vertical direction and in the horizontal. No mock up necessary, except if you really feel you need to see it before you start cutting wood.
Call me crazy, but if it were me, I think I would consider a mortise/tenon joint between the leg and top. Don't recall if you mentioned the type of wood you would be using but contrasting woods, for leg and table top may be attractive (such as the combination ebonized poplar/purple heart plant stand posted on alt. binaries.pictures.woodworking). I think would spring for a wedge a contrasting color in the tenon for additional spice. The joints would be strong from the glued tenons, and cheeks of the legs resulting in ridged legs and improved ability to bear weight since the top will actually rest on the legs.
Just a thought,
Jack
Yes it would be an X instead of a rectangle from above. If the ends are available for an apron/skirt you could do an hour glass |x| from above and it would be nearly as strong as the rectangle. Joe C. idea of tapering is great and would look nice. As for joinery, I always use mortice and tennon with glue,no pins, so it can be repaired a 100 years from now. Fine furniture today is about clean lines with accents, IMHO. Ebonize the apron/skirt structure to mimimize it. How about a walnut top, maple legs, black apron. Sounds good to me. Jack
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