Casing doors

[Bill]

I was just reading this article about casing doors (not that I needed to read it of course...just because I was curious).

My door is about 7' high, the molding is 2" wide and 1.25" thick.

My strategy was that I would fit and mark the moldings to size, cut them with a hand miter saw I have, and nail it up. Since I'm not nailing through drywall, I figured 2.5" finish nails would be appropriate. If 2" finish nails would be suitable, I happen to have those on hand (please comment).

I was even planning to go through the extra effort of priming the ends, before I nailed it up.

This isn't adequate for the fellow who wrote the article. He wants to tack it down, and then glue his molding using "spring clamps" which I have never seen before, and then go back and nail it down. Hell, I think I'll be wrestling the molding to the wall (as I bend around two of my drywall seems! : )

I do like his idea of using a "spacer" tool, to make the reveal perfectly uniform. I would not have thought of that, and I can improvise that.

I wanted to share these words in case anyone is willing to comment on anything. I intend to go buy the molding tomorrow morning. The stuff I ripped down 3 years ago seemed ratty at the time (and was put up by someone even less ambitious than I am!) I guess that partially addresses my concerns. I suppose there are lots of ways to address most any project. Whatever I do, it will be better than it was! : )

The fellow in the article even blunted or cut off the ends of the nails to keep from splitting the wood. Is that a technique you use? To my intuition, it seems like it might make more sense for much thinner molding.

Cheers, Bill

[nailshooter41]

Is this brick or masonry molding? 1 1/4" this is pretty thick for door tri ms unless it is for a masonry/rock application.

In this instance, probably everyone here learned differently. For me, I le arned that you need to have at least 2/3rd more nail than the thickness of the material you are nailing. In some cases this formula is part of the bu ilding codes for certain applications.

Trims and moldings are different and there are other variables. If you whe n I put up a thick trim like your are using, I use an 8d finish (2 1/2") if I am nailing directly to the frame. If I am going over sheetrock I will u se 10d due to the fact that you will be nailing an additional 1/2 " of material that will not hold a nail.

Having hung a few thousand doors (literally), I have never seen anyone use spring clamps on door trim.

As far as finger savers go, they can be handy and I used them myself when I was learning to drive nails. As far as buying a special nail placement to ol to work around hinge placement. put your nails on either side of the hin ge where you have the room to drive the nail. There is no reason to put th em right on the hinge.

Blunting the nails works on some trims. Not so much anymore as the hardwoo ds we get that make up stock trims are hard enough to be brittle. With tha t in mind, I take a nail the size of the nails I am driving and clip the he ad off and use it as a drill bit for small nails, say 3d to 4d. Anything o ther than those sizes, I use a drill bit that is a little smaller than the nail in diameter and then drill only through the trim by a little bit. Tod ay's nails are made from am mix of steel scrap, and blunting them will caus e them to bend, creating another problem when driving the nail.

I don't use adhesive on door trims. I don't know what that guy thinks he w ill be achieving by doing that on end joints. If I want then to stay and I think they need help, I line the joint up where I want it, drill a pilot h ole from the top and then nail down where the nail can't be seen. This als o eliminates that spring clamp business.

For inside use if I am hand nailing, I drill pilot holes for the jamb side and use 4d finish. For the wall side, I use 8d finish. But this is for 1/

2" thick trim. Your instance will be different. Put your nails on the jam b side about 10" apart on a shimmed door, and about 14" on the wall side. On non shimmed doors (I don't shim doors 24" or less) then tighten up those measurements by 2" each side.

Take your time when installing your casing. On a proper door installation, the casing is an important, integral part of the door structure. The inst allation of the casing completes a "box", which will hold the jamb true and help prevent the torque created from use from pulling the door out of adju stment. I don't use as many nails as that guy you referenced does since I usually shim most doors, but I am particularly careful to put nails on eith er sides of the hinges on both sides of the casing, and strike side gets th e same treatment as well.

Robert

[dadiOH]

If your door is "standard", it is 80". A molding 1.25 thick and 2" wide is wierd. Is this a casing mold or a brick mold? If for an interior passage door, I sure wouldn't want it.

Either of your nail lengths should be fine. I've done very few doors other than mine but I prefer to use screws and face grain plugs.

I've never glued mitered casing (in fact, I've rarely used mitered casing) but it would help keep them together. Those spring clamps are often used by picture framers; I never used them when I was making same because they leave deep gouges.

Whether or not one needs/should blunt nail points depends upon whether or not what you are nailing through tends to split. ____________________________

In a perfect world, the side jambs would be perfectly vertical and parallel to each other and they would be at right angles to the top jamb; all would be flush to the wall surface on each side.

It isn't a perfect world.

Because it isn't a perfect world is why casings are relieved on the back...the hollow between the two edges helps bridge too thick drywall. That relief also means that you need to nail through the non-relieved part to avoid the possibility of splitting the casing down the middle.

Because it isn't a perfect world is also the reason I avoid mitering casing. Instead, I use corner blocks...the ends of the casings are cut square and of the proper length to align with the reveal. The open square left is then filled with a slightly thicker and larger square piece of wood; thicker so it will be proud of the jambs; larger so it will be wider than the jambs on both edges. A "stopper". Corner blocks often have a decorative rosette; I don't have a rosettes cutter so I just rout a decorative edge all around.

Final thought: if the mold you intend to use is actually 1.25 x 2, how are you going to open the door? The pivot point of the door hinges should be far enough out so that the door can open fully without interference from the molding.

[Leon]

Hey Robert! How was Kalifornia? Did you see any airplains that may have been flying to Lo? ;~)

[nailshooter41]

LOL! Not this trip.

Funny thing about Lake Tahoe, they don't consider themselves Californians a nd are tired of being painted with the same brush as the dreaded "Bay Area Assholes". Those folks in Tahoe really, really don't like their southern n eighbors. I heard that everywhere I went this trip.

Without the skiing industry, Tahoe would be just another sleepy tourist tow n. If you go now, there are few tourists and the town rolls up at around 9 at night. The streets are literally deserted by 11. A nice, clean hotel room on the beach area of the lake is about $80 a night!

Hard to take a bad picture there too, since it is sooooo scenic. The folks there on both sides of Tahoe love their town and have a lot of pride in it and it shows. There is no trash anywhere in the streets; there is NO graf fiti. This trip there was a wooden boat show, and antique car show, along w ith all the other things to do. We rode the gondolas, took the river boat c ruise, drove to Carson City and rode the antique train up to Virginia City, and on an on.

The trip was a huge success. Plenty to do, but really relaxing as well.

You and lovely K should put that on your list!

Robert

[Bill]

You are correct, I was wrong. I was looking at the molding on the door between the garage and the entry to the kitchen, which is of a different nature. The molding I should be using, provided I match the rest of the house, should be 2 1/2" wide and 1/2" thick.

Thank you for providing a great lesson in the rest of your post!

By the way, when I really need a "finger saver" (for really small nails or to get to hard to reach places) I make my own--out of a piece of cardboard say. I learned to pound nails as a youngster the old-fashioned way--accumulating a few blood-blisters along the way. But I learned--I don't hit my fingers like that anymore, at least not so much! : )

Bill

[Bill]

That's just what I need to do. I had not planned to use "2 columns" of nails. %-) Surely you must drill pilot holes for the 8d finish nails too, then, right? Right through the drywall I suppose.

Thanks once again for a very helpful lesson!

Bill

[Bill]

Yes, I messed up on that. I need a 2 1/2" by 1/2" thick molding. I described the molding around an entry way (to the kitchen) adjacent to it, where the actual door lies 5" or so inward.

I've been "sweating that miters" ever since I took the old one molding down! Though the fellow who did the previous installation didn't sweat it--he just left a 3/8" gap inside the miter I guess that's why I didn't hesitate to discard it.

I haven't figured out yet why I one may need a rosette cutter (it seems like they should be of standard size (s) --like 2 3/4" square) but I like your idea of using "corner blocks" (much better than my chances of cutting perfect miters!) I'll investigate further.

Thank you very much for your helpful and interesting post!

Bill

[Leon]

We will certainly put on our list! Thank you for the review!

How many days were you gone?

[nailshooter41]

That really depends on the hardness of the trim. I don't have any trouble getting the nails in, but worry about splitting when using that really hard white primed stuff from Chile that they sell at the big boxes. Try a nail or two a foot from the edges when using the 8d nails and inspect closely f or tiny splits around the nails. This can be a good indicator for splittin g near the ends of the trim. Drill the ends of the trim about an inch down from your inside miter for your nails if you have any doubts at all.

Reminds me of a good tip.

Make your reference/spacer marks as needed on the jamb. Cut the trim to le ngth using the inside length of the miter, not the outside. Put both sides up, but DO NOT nail the last 8 inches around the miter joint, just make su re the trim is on your mark. Measure the outside length of the top piece ( the horns if you will) to get an overall outside measurement. If the sides are not 100% attached, you can move them very slightly back and forth to i mprove the appearance of your miter joints. This may be necessary as NO do or is ever installed completely square or completely plumb. Attach the top piece with a nail in the center of the trim, inspect your joints, adjust/t rim as needed and if necessary put a nail (predrilled of course!) into the miter joint. I would suggest a 3d for that joints as needed.

Once you are satisfied with the fit, complete the attachment of the trim.

Glad to help!

Robert

[Keith Nuttle]

Two leg miters are really not that difficult. as you only have one width to worry about, the distance across the door. Your problems really begin on four sided miters, like a picture frame. If the side pieces are a little long or short the extra material can be accounted for at the bottom of the door. That is what quarter round is for.

I cut my miters on a table saw, using a triangle miter gauge. Coarse cut the miter on the table saw, then do a shave cut on the table saw to get the precision.

[dadiOH]

NP. One thing...in this part "The open square left is then filled with a

The word "jamb" should be "casing".

[Bill]

Written like a true pro--it sounds like sage advise!

I don't know if you remember me screwing around "shimming" my door for the last year or two (Mike Marlow was sort of helping me with it)? It wouldn't stay locked all year. I ultimately determined that my "weather-related" problem with the door not locking was only indirectly due to the shimming. It was due to the door latch hitting the edge of the striker plate. Installing a different striker plate allowed me to move the opening down about 1/4 inch--which I strongly believe is the final word on that problem. That said, this may be a good chance to shim the door again (for the 5th or 6th time?) , before I "reinforce" it with all of this molding! Like a "box"!!! %- ). I use my reciprocating saw to cut the old nails... I'll try to force myself to shim it one LAST time...though the place where the nails enter is starting to get a little ragged. If anyone points and asks, I'll just have to admit, "that's where I learned." Maybe I can cover my experience with some joint compound.

Cheers, Bill

[Bill]

You drew the right picture for me. In fact, I found Home Depot has a door casing all-in-one kit using your model (but it's MDF so I'm not going to use that particular kit).

I'll let you know how it comes out! : ) I think I'm going to start by re-shimming the door (read my other most-recent post)...

Bill

[Bill]

I just came home with my casing from Chile, I mean Home Depot. At least in my case, the "white primed casing" is MDF. I didn't notice until I was putting it in the car. That means it has Formaldehyde in it, so (if I follow the guidelines at Wikipedia) I could paint the back and ends for instance if I feel like it. As long as I don't breathe the dust directly, or eat it, I don't expect a real problem either way. I will be careful to avoid doing either of those things... Based on my 2 bad experiences working with regular plywood in the last 10 years, I think I'll don a pair of my blue-nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight when I cut it. I would have preferred to pay for wood.

Bill

[Bill]

I'm over the hump. I replaced a shim in the door with a slightly thinner one to suit me. I noticed that the angles on my door are close to 90-degrees. Then I cut all of the 45-degree miters in the door casing with an old metal miter saw someone gave me. I compared my first cut with my Starrett combination square and it fared well. I just made one bad cut, forgetting that door molding not only has a front and back, it has an inside and an outside too! My first thought was that I would just "use the piece on the other side", but I noticed that it doesn't work that way! ; ) With time to spare, and everything handy, I quickly painted the backs of the pieces. I'll cut the two sides to length and nail it all up tomorrow.

I inset numerous nails heads still present from me shimming the door several times. My thought is that I will apply some EZ-Sand drywall compound (or Durabond) over that strip (containing the strike plate), and paint it, to pretty it up. The door opens to the inside of the garage, and there is even a piece of weather strip in place. Thus, I think condensation would be main possible source of moisture. Is it likely to hold up if I do this (I'm sure how good my Zinnser 123 and drywall compound are at dealing with moisture like this)? The current paint there is very flat, and may be a primer itself (or not...).

I knew I forgot something at the store. I forgot to buy my "pale green" paint for the door. I think there used to be a movie called "The Green Door". Any coincidence with my choice of color for the door is just that. : )

Bill

[Bill]

Alot of work that seems really hard when it's "out of one's comfort zone". I've noticed it can sometimes be really hard to move out of ones comfort zone sometimes. Thinking about being out of one's comfort zone seems to create immobilization. The prodding and tips I got in this thread were helpful in getting me going--maybe because they contained some concrete "what to do's" that hit home and made me feel more confident.

Anyhow, just want to document that the "comfort zone" concept may be a very important one. Not just to us, but to our whole society (I don't claim this is an original idea). I'm always quietly-excited when I can increase the size of my comfort zone. :)

Bill

[jo4hn]

Think Mitchell Bros. film starring Marilyn Chambers (the Ivory Snow girl

- 99 44/100% pure). Should'a won an Oscar.

[dadiOH]

If you are worried about it melting, use setting compound rather than drying. Or plaster. Or Bondo. Or lacquer base auto glazing compound. Et cetera.

[Bill]

Thank you. Will do!

Bill