Beaded Face Frame - Kreg

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Leon and I were just discussing this on the back channel.
Any one here going to bite?
http://vimeo.com/5577744
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Just buy the bit. The rest you already own or could fab pretty quickly.
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Robatoy wrote:

That crossed a couple of minds already. Trying to determine if it could be adapted to the M-R.
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I don't see how that is better than what I've been doing. I bead up the stock and then remove what needs to be by using a combination of the chopsaw with the depth set, and the bandsaw to do what the chopsaw can't.
They'll have to do some more convincing to crowbar any money out of my wallet.
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Yeah, I'm not getting that one. The gloss over the fact that you must be 100% (as in absolutely no margin of error) accurate on your depth cuts in the stiles, and perfect in the length of the ears that are cut off on the rails. Anyone that has tried to match cuts with an Incra system or any of the other snap on stop systems can testify how hard that can be. Again, I am looking at that depth adjustment. How many test cuts would you have to make?
At least if you are building faces the old fashioned way (not as show in the video with saw blade burned wood, oozing glue, and poor bead mold placement) you can make up just a bit of inconsistency when you add your bead mold. With this system, you have no margin for error.

Ditto. I didn't know that there was such a great need for beaded faces that a new product was needed. To me, this is a solution looking for a problem.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Looks to me that the shoulder might make that easier than you think? Then again, maybe not.

How long the fad will last is anyone's guess, but do know for a fact that they are a much asked about item in kitchens theses days.
Apparently the "kitchen and bath" magazine industry was looking for an old "new" idea to sell magazines.
Hey, I'm not trying to sell the damn things, but I wouldn't mind using/adapting the concept to cut back on the waste and time it takes to do beaded FF on a shitload of cabinets.
I lusted after one of the dedicated machines a few years ago ... they started at $8k back then ...
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I have no idea. But for the last few nifty machines I have looked at, it always seems that it will be easier to use than it is. I think I am jaded. =:o

Either that design hasn't made its way over here yet in full force, or our designers didn't like it. I see the beading on bath cabs and such, but not on full kitchens. Maybe the cost... dunno...

Are you sure? Lots of conspiracy guys around here these days... you'll never get away with it!! <just kiddin'>
Saving time on repetitive tasks is always a good thing. But as slow as my business has been (last full kitchen - 8 months ago and nothing in sight!!) I have no need for any new tools, nor the budget to buy them.
Right now, you couldn't drive a toothpick in my ass with a sledgehammer.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Dovetail jigs come to mind, or repeated battles with same. :)

True ... it is time consuming, therefore costly, and thus not often seen in 'wham bam thank you mam' built-in jobs ... IME, something you want to do in the shop.

Sorry to hear that ... you're not that far from Austin, where I've been having a difficult time finding subs at all, as those guys are busy as hell and very proud of what they do. I wouldn't mind the latter except that the quality of work in that area is decidedly inferior to what we get in the Houston area, as much as I bitch about that.
That said, the next house is stuck in planning stages and may not come unstuck for some time, so I could well be in the same boat after the first of the year.
Maybe there will finally be more time to go fishing ...
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We just had an interesting page of statistics in our local newspaper about our real estate situation. Home building of homes over $400,000 and less than 1.5 million has only decreased about 10 - 15% in this economic downturn.
Long hailed as a great value market, San Antonio became extremely inflated in the price ranges of about $150K to $300K. That's my normal bread and butter market. They don't want to start over again with a new house, so they refurb. Their payments may be low enough that they feel like a new bath or paint/tile/carpet/cabs would work great with a home loan.
With the economy finally catching up to us, many of the contractors I know that do the remodel/repair stuff I do are either gone or in dire straights.
And now with the home builders being so desperate, it is hard for me to sell an $5K - $8K bath when they can literally get in a brand new house with all new everything and warranties to back it up for about $2500 or less. They feel like they will be leaving all the old problems behind if they go new. We may know better, but if their old house needs a lot of maintenance, who cares? They are looking at the $$ and bang for the buck.
My bigger, better clients (read: financially secure) are now downsizing as well, so they are looking more at garden homes. Middle aged +, they are more economically experienced and savvy, and they are looking to cut long term costs where they can to prepare for their futures. They have also adopted a "wait and see" attitude about the economy, and those old peach and green color schemes just don't seem nearly as annoying as they did 2 years ago.
My bailiwick is younger to middle aged urban professionals that don't mind remodeling to get their house the way they like it. Similarly, they protect their investment by keeping up with repairs and maintenance. They were also good for the "I wanna" stuff like new front door systems, Hardie plank installs, skylights, etc. that I could get on and get off.
Many of my friends in this business are now broke, going broke, or are living off their spouse's income. We have had four lumberyards close their locations here in the last 18 months due to lack of business.
The big box guys tell me that they are experiencing anywhere from 20 - 30% fall off of sales in their stores from consumers, depending on the store location.
It sucks around here. There is work, but I have to hustle all the time to get it. This is really hard for me after almost 30 years in business as you would think there would be a certain amount of business "built in".
I have never advertised but once in all these years, but word of mouth has kept me busy for all these years. I am used to having a 2 - 3 month backlog on most of my work, so a two week "iffy" schedule situation is killing me. It reminds me of starting out in business.
My amigos think I am lucky as I am not in bad shape like they are. But having done this in the late 70s, late 80s, part of the 90s, and now as a self employed guy, I have gotten the hang of downsizing, and remembering that ego and pride don't pay the bills. Doesn't mean I have to like it...
I should have been an insurance salesman.

Actually Karl, that's a good point. I used to eat my heart out in these times and make myself completely miserable. Never did my self inflicted misery do me a bit of good.
This time around I have bought some new hiking and camping gear, and will do more woodturning for Christmas this year. I am thinking of taking some wood carving classes too, as the Texas Woodcarvers Guild is having classes here about every six months. I would love to learn how to chip carve. No Santas or farm animals for me; I like the Celtic knots and european diamonds. I am wanting to learn how to make a jewelry box or gun box/case and carve something unique on it.
Rather than just "getting through" the holidays as quickly as possible, I am going to make a real effort to enjoy them this year with the family and friends I still have left.
Sorry... just waxing a bit here on a rainy day...
Robert
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On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

It's been a big detail around here for a long time and I've probably run off several miles of beaded stock for baseboards, casing and face frames.
The face frames are a little fussy and I've used both applied bead/ quirk, and that worked in the solid. I prefer the solid and feel like I can turn out good quality joints quickly, using basic shop tools.
I used to love buying new tools. Nowadays I hate anything that goes on the debit side of the ledger.
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Tom Watson wrote:

Better man than me, Charlie Brown. I simply haven't done enough of them to make an apprentice to the pimple on a cabinetmaker's ass.

Just replaced my lost-on-the-job saddle square and, at only $28 for two from LV, even that minor shop expenditure took some consideration.
I spend a lot on supplies, but tool expenditures are way down for me.
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"Swingman" wrote

life, who is totally tool clueless, put my combination square underneath a small leak in the back of my garage. I went to get it the other day, had to hunt for it, and found it covered with a thick layer of recent rust.
Sooo....., I had to buy a new combination square. I didn't have time to rehab the old one. I got a stainless steel one this time. Also picked up a new T bevel because the one I had was not long enough for a new project.
Those are my recent tool purchaces. Not that much, but unexpected. The good thing is that both tools are much higher quality than what I had before. And I am going to hide them from my wife!
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Lee Michaels wrote:

Now, that's downright mean as hell ... what did _you_ do to deserve that?
... unless she was trying to stop the leak, with a combination square?
Then again ...
<just kidding>

Quid pro quo ... what marriages are made of. :)
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----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Beaded Face Frame - Kreg

Yeah, I'm not getting that one. The gloss over the fact that you must be 100% (as in absolutely no margin of error) accurate on your depth cuts in the stiles, and perfect in the length of the ears that are cut off on the rails. Anyone that has tried to match cuts with an Incra system or any of the other snap on stop systems can testify how hard that can be. Again, I am looking at that depth adjustment. How many test cuts would you have to make?
I can see how the acuracy of the cutting depth will be very important and thinking back, how often do your rails "PRECICELY" measure out in width. I can say from lot's of experience that my rails can may differ in width by 1/128" from one to the next. this would pose a problem with the Kreg system I suspect. I think your stock would literally have to be perfectly sized and perfectly straight. AND I would use my Domino over the pocket hole screws if I used this system, I think. ;~)
At least if you are building faces the old fashioned way (not as show in the video with saw blade burned wood, oozing glue, and poor bead mold placement) you can make up just a bit of inconsistency when you add your bead mold. With this system, you have no margin for error.
The goober infomercial demo of the old fashoned way was a hoot. I suspect that if you have precision problems the old way, it is not going to be any better with the Kreg. Assuming the Kreg is easy to use I felt that it would create a stronger joint and replace the need for jigs as spacers. I also thought you could simply use straight edges with no profile or roundovers, coves, etc. providing the bit cut all the way through the profile on the stile. .
Perhaps an in person demo showing "how easy" it is to set up would be the acid test. I would not want to see the demo with every thing already set up.
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Tom Watson wrote:

I like the concept, though. Anything that can cut back on "time and waste" is worth at least a look from me, as I seem to have done a lot of both on beaded FF's.
Would like to get a hold of a bit and try to jig up from there, especially if I can get equipment that currently takes up space in shop involved, like the Multi-Router.
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Then there are these guys who also seem to think that beaded face- frames are de rigueur. They have a whack of gizmos to deal with that 'problem'.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/Hoffman.jpg
I tend to agree with Robert "The Nail" Shooter that it could be a solution looking for a problem. Or, as Angela likes to say: "The answer to the question nobody asked."
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Robatoy wrote:

Bet these guys are tickled to see Kreg on the scene, eh?
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Especially considering the Hoffman nutso-cuckoo prices...
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RE: Subject
Beaded Face Frame AKA: Dirt Catcher
I'll pass.
Lew
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Like a raised panel, or recessed panel, or door with details won't catch dirt? What about those exposed hinges?
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