winter heating allowance

Yes, thanks, I think I've already got the message on what you think of people who aren't as clever/confident with banking as you.

That depends on how you define "bank account". The winter fuel payment

- like the State Pension - can be paid into a Post Office Card Account. As I indicated above that is not an account which can be used for DDs (or SOs). It also cannot accept credits other than pensions/benefits. So it can't be used to manage utilities in the way you seem still to envisage.

Successive governments have encouraged those who can to open bank accounts but 2 years ago there were still some 2.5 million holders of PO Card Accounts. If you have some way to get that number down the government would very much like to know as the PO Card Account ain't cheap. But I suggest if you don't know any such people you get out and meet some first.

Reply to
Robin
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That's incredibly patronizing. Thinking you need to be clever to use a bank account.

Hmm. Very odd that those who can't be expected to set up a bank account because it's beyond them somehow still manage to work a new to them TV or whatever. Where you don't simply switch it on and press a button on it for BBC1 or ITV. Same with a washing machine.

The elderly who still have their marbles are perfectly capable of change where needed. Those who are infirm in whatever way may well need help with anything.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

I'm slightly out of date, having retired as local postmaster three years ago, but I know pensions could still be paid into a POCA and collected as cash six months ago, and I'm sure that is still current.

Winter fuel payments were paid as a Green Giro, and cashed at the PO. We were always reminded when payments were due, as we had to hold extra cash.

There are still a lot of oldies around who don't have a bank account. Their POCA was their introduction to accounts and plastic cards, PINs etc.

Certainly three years ago, there were many who had plastic cards for such as rent, electricity, telephone and council tax, and they paid a few pounds off each, every week, as they collected their pension - in cash. Doubtless the local authorities and utilities hated them, but that was how such people had always lived. They paid the bills first, every week, then lived on what was left. Every week, they wanted all their pension in cash, which I would do. They would then hand me exact amounts for each account. Every one was a standalone transaction. Much easier and faster for me to have the pension figure, deduct the bills and pay the balance, but they wouldn't have that.

Reply to
Graeme

In article , Graeme writes

Same with the bus pas - all in the name of equality

Reply to
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

There is if your bank won't allow you to have direct debits -which is the case for some low income groups.

Reply to
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

I think you'll find that the vast majority of elderly people in particular use a very small percentage of the facilities on domestic equipment.

And they do.

And how many do you think that is and from where do they get that help?

Reply to
bert

Yes. But that assumes the OAP didn't have a bank account before. Not sure how many that applies to these days.

Ah - didn't know that. Mine has always been paid direct into my account.

I know many did do that sort of thing once - but you'd hope the numbers would be dwindling. As those used to running a bank account become the norm.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Agreed, although quite a few OAPs who had bank accounts still wanted their pension paid in cash at the PO. My Mum was a perfect example. I don't know why.

I think Green Giros may have ceased to exist now. You wouldn't believe the amounts of cash a PO had to hold at Green Giro time.

Indeed. Sad in some ways, but inevitable. So many who were coming to the counter each week only a few years ago are either dead or in a care home where someone else handles the finances.

Running a PO was an education in itself. I won't say it completely changed my political views, but it certainly had an effect, and perhaps opened my eyes to that which I had been unaware of, or possibly chose to ignore.

Reply to
Graeme

Yes. But remember we're talking about now. And as existing OAPs who were used to cash only get older, even more of a problem to visit a PO to get cash.

Suppose I can. But then the function of the PO has changed drastically in other ways too.

Yes.

What I don't like is the view that just because you're old, you are totally resistant to chenge. Even when that change can be much more convenient for you.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In some (possibly many) cases it is less resistant to change and more different priorities. Eg I have known people in their 80s adopt with enthusiasm use of a PVR 'cos they see a clear benefit to them (such as never missing Deal or No Deal!) They don't all see the same benefit from switching to bank accounts, direct debits, monthly payments etc. It's not just the effort - and the loss of the social contact visits to the PO or PayPoint shop gives them.

That said, I don't accept it's patronizing to recognise that there are still pensioners who can cope by doing things their way with cash but couldn't with a bank account, utility bills which show balances (positive or negative), DD mandates etc. They may never have been able to given low levels of literacy and numeracy.

Reply to
Robin

You could still use your PO or bank branch to get cash if you wish. But I'd hope there are vanishingly small OAPs being forced to use pre-payment meters. Mainly because they are such poor value. And it's not like they were ever the norm. Quarterly bills were.

Then that would apply regardless of age. Perhaps even more so - given the basics like literacy and numeracy don't have the same emphasis in schools as once.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Indeed. (And that is one reason why pensioners are not the only group of welfare recipients who cannot be assumed to be able to have a bank account.) But you questioned comments from Graeme and me about pensioners paying quarterly and collecting their pensions in cash so I assumed pensioners were the subject of your further comments (the more so as you continued with comments about how you thought pensioners can no longer collect the State pension in cash from the PO).

Reply to
Robin

They collect their cash from their PO account (or other bank account). Subtle difference.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Nope. These are very-well-off West Africans (who can afford to fly here) and live quite comfortably back home.

They come here to sponge off the NHS. If you don't believe me, have a chat with anyone who works in Immigration at Heathrow or Gatwick.

Another favourite trick is for a couple to bring in a child ostensibly as a relative and just leave them at Gatwick, with instructions on what to say to the friendly policemen when challenged. Such kids are then placed with a Foster family (who get paid a nice income), enrolled in the nearest school and are supported financially until they are 25. This happens

2 or 3 times every week.

UK kids in care OTOH, are chucked out to fend for themselves at age 18.

Reply to
Andrew

As opposed to dying anyway, which old people generally tend to do in winter, since dying is the unavoidable consequence of being alive.

It's called the carbon cycle.

Reply to
Andrew

Because in some cases they are living in Spain or somewhere warmer, and just maintain a bolt-hole in the UK for tax purposes, and so they can nip back and use the NHS when necessary.

Reply to
Andrew

Why would a very well off anyone want to sponge off the NHS? Given the long waiting times for non critical treatment?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Which delays are these? Went to docs on monday about flu symptoms and he decided I should have a thyroid scan as it has been over twenty years since I had an op. Had the scan on tuesday morning (it was going to be at 17:00 but they phoned and asked if I could come earlier).

The NHS appears to be getting better ATM.

Reply to
dennis

As opposed to living somewhat longer. But your turn will come.

Reply to
bert

Have you ever been to West Africa ?.

Or even anywhere in Africa.

Their health service is rudimentary, downright dangerous at times, and not free. So those that can, just come to the UK as 'tourists', and overstay their visa until they are 8 months pregnant, which means no airline will carry them.

There are no waiting lists for maternity services as such. GPs refer pregnant ladies to the local maternity hospital and they are booked in and get the usual maternity checks.

If a lady goes into labour and presents at A&E, they just wheel her into the Labour ward and ask questions afterwards.

By the time the hospital admin staff realise she is not a UK citizen and ask her how she is going to pay, she is usually already on her way home.

There is no procedure in place to stop people at embarcation who owe the NHS money.

Reply to
Andrew

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