Wilo stupidpumps?

[YAPH]

Had a Biasi* (ptui!) with a failed pump today - bearings completely shot. The pump was a WILO but the official Biasi spare is c.£135 + VAT and not available locally. Looked like a bog standard pump head but nobody does the bog standard pumps anymore - they're all SmartPumps. Which may or may not be mechanically interchangeable but the electronics housing on the side of the all-singing version probably wouldn't have fitted in the space available in the boiler (besides it would have been such a gross bodge I wouldn't have wanted to put my name to it!).

Seems they've stopped making the standard pumps (except, presumably, as boiler spares). So it might be useful to put aside a couple of them if I ever find any - any clues out there? And looking ahead to when standard efficiency pumps in general are phased out (real soon now, though I don't know offhand exactly when) I think I should stockpile some standard Grundfos heads!

• some condensing model with 2ndary HE, so can't have been that old.

[geoff]

In message , YAPH writes

Bog standard Wilo pump?

I've just removed one from the new house and replaced it with a 15/50

You're welcome to the old one, its in working order

I'll send it on monday if I remember

>

[YAPH]

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one ordered up from Shitty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going to disappear.

[Tabby]

I dont have a smartpump to get the figures from, so these figures are likely inaccurate...

Cold winter day: 33% run time summer: almost no use for 4months

8 months 0-33%, ave 16.6% of time -> over the whole yr, 11% of the time

plain pump: so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about =A33.30 per yr in leccy, =A333 per decade, =A383 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus =A325+=A383 =3D =A3108

smartpump: vague guess halved energy use -> =A342 per 25yr life TCO thus =A3126+42 =3D =A3168

Comments welcome!

NT

[geoff]

Give it a little kick every so often to stop it seizing up because of scaling

its a common problem and even the potterton Suprima gives the pump a short burst every day

[Tim Lamb]

er... There are other attributes:-)

System noise for one. Rad stats are clever things but they don't have any means of controlling fixed pump flow.

regards

[YAPH]

Screwfix Flomasta me-too B-rated pump costs £40, uses 52W on setting III,

40W on setting II - let's assume we use this setting

£40 + £110 = £150

Wilo A-rated smartpump is £65 at Screwfix so £65 + £55 (same guess: half the consumption) = £120

[Tabby]

Yes, reading a bit more I saw they were around =A365. But also that energy saving is *upto* 50%, and since one must inevitably use just as much energy to pump when the boiler is at max output, IRL the energy saving is 0-50%, which we could guesstimate as 25% average save.

Pasting previous revised calcs...

plain pump: so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about =A33.30 per yr in leccy, =A333 per decade, =A383 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus =A325+=A383 =3D =A3108

smart pump: Energy saving 0-50%, so approx average 25% saving =A383 thus becomes =A362 per 25yr life TCO thus =A365+62 =3D =A3127

However the revelation the 40 or 52w figure will change that again. OK, I'll revise the above...

plain pump: so a 40w non-electronic pump will use about =A34.40 per yr in leccy, =A344 per decade, =A3110 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus =A340+=A3110 =3D =A3150

smart pump: Energy saving 0-50%, so approx average 25% saving =A3110 thus becomes =A382 per 25yr life TCO thus =A365+82 =3D =A3147

So no saving, but more upfront cost.

NT

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes, my Keston does that too, or so it says in the manual. It was about 7 years before I happened to be stood next to it (having a pee, as it happens) when it did this. I discovered it revs up its burner fan too.

I also operated the mid position valve if it hadn't been operated for 24 hours, but I needed the computer control output which did this for some other reason (having run out of spare outputs), so that no longer happens now.

[Steve Walker]

You've missed that the inefficiency produces waste heat, which is of course not wasted at all, because you wouldn't be running the pump if you didn't want heat!

SteveW

[YAPH]

Depends when and where the heat is generated: in summer on a system with stored hot water the heat generated by the pump is liable to be wasted, and in winter it may be wasted if the pump is somewhere that's warm enough anyway.

Although it's piddling amounts we're talking about here: less than a single half-decent lightbulb, and regulating to mandate the more efficient pumps seems to be a case of straining after gnats.

WILO's (presumed) withdrawal of their standard-efficiency pumps means anyone with a Biasi with a failed pump is faced with paying more and waiting longer for a new pump head from Biasi rather than a cheaper generic WILO one. Which probably serves them right for buying cheap crap from B&Q anyway. :-)

[Onetap]

Politicians dance to the tune called by pressure groups, manufacturers' interest groups and backhanders, rather than representing the interests of those they were elected to represent.