Waste pipe from a washing machine over a longer distance.

[Gareth Paterson]

Hi,

I have just moved into a new property in which the space we have chosen for the washing machine is on the opposite side from the kitchen sink (from which underneath we have our connections for the machines). We have fitted units going around the walls with a nice gap underneath them in which I have run the hot and cold water pipes to the machine, however with regards to the waste pipe I am not sure what to do.

The total distance is about 5m (2m from washing machine to top wall,

2m from one end of top wall to other end and 1m from other end of top wall to the pipes under the sink)

Below I've tried to give a rough layout, it displays okay when I posted it so I hope it works when posted

---- ¦ ¦ X ¦ M

I am under the impression that I should do a 6mm drop for every 300mm covered which means I need a drop of 100mm which I am not sure I have that much space available to play with.

What is the best way to hook this up? Any help appreciated.

Also...the drainpipe at the far end is a 40mm pipe but the tube off the machine is more like 20mm, should I run 20mm or 40mm around the kitchen?

Thanks,

Gareth

[Christian McArdle]

If you can't get enough drop, you can pump the waste. Saniflo are a well known manufacturer. You don't need the type with the macerator, though. They do types suitable for grey water.

40mm if unpumped. If pumped, you can usually get away with a much smaller pipe, as it is pressurised (probably 22mm would be fine).

The actual outlet from the washing machine will be pumped, which is why it can be a thin hose. However, the pump is not really designed to pump all the way around the kitchen, just to a nearby drain with air break, so it becomes gravity propelled at that point.

Christian.

[Owain]

"Christian McArdle" wrote | 40mm if unpumped. If pumped, you can usually get away with a much | smaller pipe, as it is pressurised (probably 22mm would be fine). | The actual outlet from the washing machine will be pumped, which | is why it can be a thin hose. However, the pump is not really | designed to pump all the way around the kitchen, just to a | nearby drain with air break, so it becomes gravity propelled | at that point.

(Some) Miele machines can have an extra length hose as an option, but I'm not sure about 5m. Some fall would still be advisable to prevent standing water stagnating in the hose.

Owain

[BigWallop]

A 22mm plastic plumbing pipe will be enough to take the waste water away from the machine, but it will need to begin at, or just below, the worktop level at the machine end. From the machine, it can drop around 20mm for every 1 metre, so you should have enough room behind the base units to achieve this.

Press the end of the waste outlet pipe from the machine on to the end of the plastic pipe and fix it in place with a hose clamp to make it doesn't blow off under pressure. At the main drain end you can buy TEE fittings that will take any standard inch and a quarter (32mm) or inch and half (40mm) and has an outlet point to take 22mm plastic especially made for this job.

Have a look around your local DIY store or plumbers merchant for the things you'll need. The plastic pipework will probably need solvent glued to make the joints sound and stop them leaking for many years.

Good luck with it.

[Andy Hall]

At the main drain end, the pipe should really terminate into a trap and not into the 32 or 40mm pipe on the drain side........

A washing machine trap with an upstand pipe can be used for this with a tee or saddle type clamp onto the side

Alternatively, some sink traps have a spigot for dishwasher or washing machine and one could convert back to flexible hose and connect onto that.

[Gareth Paterson]

Thanks for the assistance on the plumbing tips, this should give em a good bit to go on. Just so I can fully explore all my options, if I was to use a pump I assume this could go at ground level or would it need to be raised as well. Also do I have to use something expensive like the SaniVite or is there a cheaper option?

[Gareth Paterson]

To expand on my last post...what I mean is, the SaniVite costs roughly £300. The SaniShower is nearly half the price, they are both gray water disposal -pumps designed to work with hot (and I would assume soapy since most people use soap/shampoo) water. The difference being that the SaniShower would fit perfectly under my cabinets, is half the price and caters to a single connection more than the Vite which is designed for up to 4 connections.

SaniFlo insist that the only one the will guarantee is the Vite but I get the feeling that is because they will only guarantee an additional £150 in their pockets.

Grundfos are equally expensive for their Water Mater and I can't find anyone else that seems to sell gray water pumps. I assume a regular gray water pump would be fine since they say that washing machine water is an acceptable source but I cant find a cheap and chearful gray water pump.

[N. Thornton]

What you should and can do are 2 different things. Should is to prevent any remote chance of failure to fully empty. IRL you can run

5m even horizontally and it is most likely to work fine: add the tubing, get as much angle as you can fit in, and do a test wash to check it all empties.

Wider bore pipe will maximise the flow rate, which is what you want. The U trap will need to be at the far end of the 5m run: there is probably one already there, or a sink trap connection.

Do not use a saniflo! In the unlikely event that the machine has such weak pumping that it fails to empty, add a 2nd washing machine pump plumbed in the outlet piping so the 2 are in series, and wire it to the existing one, in parallel. Machines pump longer than they need to to cover things like this, so it is unlikely a simple setup will fail you, unlikely you would need a 2nd pump.

Wait a second.... youre not running this waste pipe upto the ceiling are you? That has almost no chance of workingn as is, sorry. To run that you'd have to have a 2nd pump in place, and use the narrower bore pipe up a far as the ceiling, then switch there to wider bore. I cant think why youd need to go up to the ceiling though.

NT

[Gareth Paterson]

Sorry for all the questions at once but I am thinking on this constantly all day long.

Back on the non-pump solution, it has occured to me there is a soil pipe behind the kitchen wall located at the top wall on the washing machine side making my total distance to cover just a little over 2m. It comes from the upstairs bathroom/shower.

If I was to run a 40mm pipe behind the cabinets along the 2m run with a trap at the end and then boss it into the soil pipe would this be okay? Do I need to vent it? Would it be worth using an anti vac trap? I read somewhere that this is advisable for longer runs.

Also, if the pipe runs at an angle 6mm vert per 300mm horz, how do I level it out horz again when I reach the trap.

[Lurch]

On 9 Nov 2004 08:47:12 -0800, [e-mail] (Gareth Paterson) strung together this:

Thinking? That's a bad habit. If you're going to run it in 40mm to the stack then the best solution is to use a washing machine standpipe kit, (with trap), then run from that straight into the stack with a boss as you say.

[Pete C]

Hi,

Woundn't be a bad idea to have an air admittance valve somewhere eg a trap with one built in. If the w/m is connected straight to the waste pipe it would stop foul air being drawn in as the pipe cools. Whether this could then permeate into the room somehow I have no idea :)

cheers, Pete.

[Gareth Paterson]

Does this mean opening the machine up and putting the pump inside or can it go externally?

Secondly, does it have to match the existing pump or will a more generic askoll or plaset be fine?

Gareth

[BigWallop]

Don't go to too much trouble with this. The waste water comes out at very low pressure and doesn't need extra pumping or larger pipework. The machine itself has enough venting on the inlet drawer, in fact, it has more than any air intake valves I've ever seen. The diameter of the outlet hose would already be larger if the machine needed it to be.

A pipe with the same diameter as the outlet hose, usually 22mm, is all that you need for this job. You can create a trap at the back of the machine using its own flexible hose if you really want too, but you don't need one if you run the 22mm pipe to your kitchen sink trap.

Over the lengths you gave in your first post, all you need is a drop from worktop height to the height of a standard kitchen sink waste outlet. So you have plenty of room for this behind all your base units.

Please keep your costs and technology at a minimum on waste water disposal, it isn't worth it, and becomes a real pain in the b**** if you over engineer the whole thing.