Washing machine bearing replacement, perhaps?

[Roger Mills]

Any washing machine experts out there?

My Zanussi Z9292T front-loading washing machine has started to make clattering noises when spinning. On a good day it sounds like a car engine with noisy tappets, and on a bad day it sounds like a machine gun.

Since it can't be more than about 30 years old (and they don't make 'em like they used to!) it should still have lots of useful life in it if I can fix it.

With the belt off, the drum spins freely - and quietly - by hand, but there is a bit of end float (maybe 5 thou) on the bearings. If I rotate the drum quickly backwards and forwards (rather than in just one direction) there is a clatter which sounds like a metal object moving around between inner and outer drums.

If I operate the spinner empty, it's relatively quiet - only clattering at certain points while accelerating and decelerating but, with any washing in it, it clatters all the time it's spinning. (The wash cycle is ok). The suspension seems ok. I've run it with the top and back off, and the outer drum isn't moving all that much - certainly not enough to collide with the casing. It seems that with washing in it - which is pretty much guaranteed not to be perfectly balanced, even after it's rotated backwards and forwards to try to distribute it evenly - there's enough vibration to excite either the bearing end float or whatever is loose between the drums - not sure which!

I'm not sure how to get at whatever is between the drums. Any ideas? There is quite a large hole in the bottom of the outer drum, to which is fitted a sort of gaiter which connects to the pump. I could possibly remove that, and see whether I can coax the object out through the hole. But, if I can, why hasn't it already fallen into the pump?

Assuming I can remove the object but it doesn't cure the problem, I guess the next thing is to replace the bearings. How difficult is that?

There is a three-legged cast iron spider affair bolted to the back of the outer drum, with a hub in the middle which I assume to contain the bearings and seal. Outboard of that is a large aluminium alloy pulley, held onto the shaft by a nut and tab washer.

It looks to me as if - in theory at any rate(!) - I should be able to remove the pulley, and then remove this spider and hub with the drum assembly in situ - leaving the inner drum 'floating', with its shaft sticking out of the back. Does this sound reasonable? Am I likely to need hub pullers? Are the bits likely to be corroded together? (There are no obvious leaks). presumably, once it's apart, replacing the bearings and seal is very similar to replacing the wheel bearings on a car? [I am, of course, assuming that I can still get bearings for a

30-year-old machine, but I assume that they will have used fairly generic standard kit rather than anything exotic?]

Apologies for the long post, but if any of you have done anything similar, and are prepared to share your experiences, I shall be very grateful.

[harryagain]

Your theory about changing the bearing is correct. Make sure you can get the parts first. I'll be surprised if you can for a machine that old, (the seal being the problem)) You can generally tell if the bearing has failed by testing for play between inner and outer drums at the loading door. Any play should be barely discernable. Check the holes in the inner drum that a nail or a bit of wire etc is not lodged and projecting through and catching on the heater.

[Brian Gaff]

I'd suspect the water heater is not long for this world myself, probably bent and distorted with bits of lime scale in there. Its very old, and probably a good engineering project for your spare time but if you need to wash clothes, why not get a new one?

Brian

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Fairly standard bearing and seal, off the shelf at a lot of stockists. Don't go to a wm supplier of parts, but to a bearing stockist for a quarter of the price. It sounds like exactly the machine I had - twenty years ago my Zanussi was likely ten years old and the bearings were easy to get from BSL or somesuch.

[NT]

Its either a penny or wire caught between drum and tub, or bad drum bearings, or perhaps the element come loose. If the drum bearings are bad there will be some lateral loose play in the drum relative to the tub.

Items can be retrieved by taking out the element or removing the front rubber seal. Bearing replacment is quite practical, but a demanding job I dont care to do again. If you cant get an original or pattern part, any of various companies will have something to fit, motor rewind co, mech engineering co, etc.

NT

[Andrew Gabriel]

CPC used to be good for this too. IIRC, it was under a fiver for genuine Hotpoint bearing kit (two bearings and the shaft seal), which was between 5 and 10 times the price from many other places.

[Bob Eager]

Yup. I replaced bearing, seal and spider. Local place wanted 60 quid, CPC had exactly the same (genuine parts) for 15 quid.

[Roger Mills]

I couldn't hear that particular noise this morning, so it was probably just things moving about on slack bearings. So I'm going to replace the bearings and see whether that cures it - and only investigate further if it doesn't.

There are lots of kits of bearings and seals available for Zanussi washers, but the vast majority are for more recent models with smaller shafts and bearings. I've now got mine apart, and it's built like a brick s**t-house compared with modern machines. I've seen car wheel bearings which are smaller than the drum bearings. Also, I think that most modern machines have pressed steel spiders rather than my cast iron

- or, more likely, forged steel - jobbie.

Getting the spider off, complete with bearings and seal, was quite easy, with the machine lying face down on some old cushions. The pulley came off easily once I had removed its bolt. The outer end of each spider arm was bolted to an extension welded to the tub - so three bolts to undo there. There were three more bolts at the inner end - just outboard of the bearing housing, fixing the spider to a flange on the back of the tub. The holes in the flange were keyhole shaped, so it was only necessary to slacken the bolts and then to rotate the spider to free the bolt heads. It then lifted off the shaft quite easily.

Getting the bearings out of the spider was not so easy! The smaller one drifted out without too much trouble, but the larger one - and seal above it - were a right sod, requiring excessive force with the biggest hammer I've got!

The bearings are standard SKF - one 6206 and one 6207 - and can be sourced without difficulty. It's also not too difficult to find seals with more or less the right dimensions - but I suspect that washing machine seals are not the same as the automotive type. The seal on a car wheel bearing only has to keep the grease in, while a washing machine seal has to keep the grease in *and* the water out. My seal appears to have two lips - one facing in each direction - and there's a lot of empty space on the bearing side between the spring ring and outer circle.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've found an online source of a Zanussi "Large Shaft" bearing kit, which appears to have all the right bits - two bearings, a proper washing machine seal, and a rubber cover (a bit like a jam jar lid with a big hole in the middle) which fits over the oil seal - all for about 16 quid. I need to check tomorrow that they've got one in stock, and then we should be in business.

A couple more questions, if I may . . .

It's this rubber cover (referred to above) which provides a seal to prevent water in the drum getting into the outside world. Its outer lip fits over the bearing housing, and its flattish (but ribbed) surface presses against the flange on the back of the tub. Should I use some sort of sealant to stick it to the housing and the flange? If so, what? I have some Stixall to hand which I could use. Any comments?

Secondly, there doesn't seem to be any means of adjusting out any end float in the bearings - and the whole thing seems to rely on the accurate dimensioning of the shoulders on the shaft and the recesses in the bearing housing. What if the shoulder against which the pulley fits is slightly proud of the back bearing? This will allow the shaft to slide backwards and forwards a bit (end float) through the bearings. Does this matter - or is it even intentional? If it matters, what do I do - make some shims to fit between pulley and bearing? That seems a bit dodgy because, if I overdo it, the bearings will end up getting side loaded. Any comments?

[Andrew Gabriel]

My hotpoint was a casting, but probably an alloy as it wasn't too heavy.

I usually had the bearings stay in the drum, and again removal required large hammer.

Whilst you have it apart, check for a drain hole behind the water seal. The seal isn't 100% perfect, and the drain hole allows tiny amounts of water to drain out without having to go through the bearings, where the water with washing detergent are a complete disaster. The drain hole can get blocked with age, and particularly if the water seal starts failing.

Also, make sure the shaft is well polished and clean where it contacts the water seal. Any debris there stops the seal working.

Don't know - that's different from the hotpoint where is it's a standard axial shaft seal which is a tight fit in the same housing as the bearing, IIRC.

Same with Hotpoint.

With the Hotpoint, I had to take the outer drum face off to get the inner drum out. It was never worth reassmbling that without replacing the outer drum seal which was also cheap to buy, and an old compressed one may not seal properly again.

[Roger Mills]

Mine is quite heavy. The photo

shows the spider with the old components which will replaced by the 'kit'. They are, clockwise from RHS, small outer bearing, large inner bearing, oil seal and gaiter which fits over the seal.

No, my bearings and seal came off with the spider, leaving the drum shaft sticking out of the back of the tub, like this:

> Whilst you have it apart, check for a drain hole behind the water

I can't see any drain hole - blocked or otherwise. Maybe mine is different?

I have cleaned it up, but I'll do it some more! The seal lip sits on the brass bit at the drum end of the shaft. See

> Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've found an online source of a

Yes, they have - and the kit is now on order and should hopefully arrive tomorrow. [Other places have the same thing cheaper, but on longer delivery unless you pay through the nose for next day delivery, which then makes them dearer!]

My oil seal fits into the drum side of the spider after the bearing, and is a tight fit. That stops water getting to the bearings, but not to the outside world. There is an additional gaiter (called a rubber cover in my previous post) which is sandwiched between the spider and the back of the tub. When fitted to the spider, with the seal behind it, it looks like this:

[Hopefully the replacement will look a bit less manky!]

shows where the gaiter and seal will be when the spider is re-fitted. Hence my question about sealant between gaiter and tub - particularly since the tub is a bit corroded round the hole (as seen in - and on the underside of the gaiter where it fits onto the spider.

As you can see from the photos, I didn't need to remove the drum in order to get at the spider and bearings. I just hope that it goes back in the same way!

[Roger Mills]

Well the operation was a success, but the patient died! Or something like that.

The new bearing kit arrived today, and I fitted the bearings and reassembled the machine. The bearings run beautifully, but the noise is still there.

One or two of you have commented about replacing bearings in Hotpoint machines. Having watched one or two videos about this on the apart4u website, it's apparent that the construction of my machine is totally different. In the Hotpoint, the bearings are held in the rear (thick) face of the (plastic) container (outer tub) and the spider is integral with the shaft and rotates inside the container - with just the end of the shaft sticking out for attaching the pulley. In my old Zanussi, the spider is a heavy forging which contains the bearings and seal, and is bolted to the outside of the (metal) container, and thus does not rotate. This means that you can change the bearings and seal without having to get inside the container.

It also means that I haven't a clue how the large (by modern standards) shaft is (supposed to be) fixed to the stainless steel inner drum. The problem seems to be in this area, because I can still feel some play in the drum, and can make it rattle if I shake it. What I previously thought to be loose bearings now seems to be a loose connection between the inner drum and the shaft - which can only be investigated by taking the container apart.

As far as I can see, that would involve taking the whole machine apart in order to lift the container out from the top, to enable the two halves to be separated. Most of the online videos show the front of the casing being removed in order to gain access to the front of the container (to replace the door seal, for example). But, unless I'm missing something, I can't do that with mine. The front appears to be pop-riveted to each side with a vertical row of rivets on the inside - which you can't get at with the container in situ. So it's not just a case of removing a few screws, as with some other machines.

I'm more or less resigned to junking it and buying a new one - unless anyone has got any bright ideas as to what to do next?!

[Roger Mills]

Having now taken the machine completely to bits, the 'hunch' which I mooted in my previous post turned out to be correct. On the back of the drum, there's a large 'spider' made of alloy of some sort, attached to the drum at the ends of each of its three legs, and with a large steel shaft coming out of the centre. [I'd already seen the shaft when I replaced the bearings, but couldn't see the rest of it until I took the drum apart].

TWO of the three legs were cracked, and came apart completely when I removed them from the drum. See

the rattling I could hear was these cracks moving, and the back of the drum flexing. I was imagining that one of the three attachments was broken, but *two* . . I dread to think what would have happened had the third leg broken during a high speed spin!

It wouldn't be economical to replace the broken part even if I could get a new one, so I've had to admit defeat. New machine on order!

[NT]

Spiders are cheap off used machines, or about 20 something new last time I looked. I wouldnt scrap it if that's all thats wrong.

NT

[Roger Mills]

Not spiders for large shaft machines like mine. The only one I've found

- and that didn't look quite the same - was 70-odd quid.

Anyway, my method of dismantling isn't reversible!