Visit to Axminster Power Tools Show last weekend

[Matt]

With one exception (and even that - the M5 it's marginal) their entire range is anything but a "drivers car" The rear wheel drive thing is just a throwback and pure misinformation so they can sell old powertrains on "new" models. A more dull, overpriced, over hyped range of vehicles you would struggle to find (unless you just happened to visit the Mercedes showroom)

Years ago buying German meant buying a quality build, even if they knew (and still know) f*ck all about suspension dynamics. Nowadays all you are buying is a badge stuck on a cheap assembly of bits - but you still get buyers with more money than sense buying them.

[usenet]

... just like me! :-)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Nor did Toyota.

[Doctor Drivel]

Lord Hall, you are right for a change. Front wheel drive has always been better to drive. Look at the Mini. It pulls the cars around a corner. One reason BMW bought Rover (and screwed it up), was instant access to front wheel drive and 4x4 technology.

[Grunff]

Yes.

Not yet - unless it did before I got it, and was never recorded (I have what looks like a complete record of every garage visit, but it is possible).

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd love to know what's old about BMW engines. The fact is they major on in line sixes - perhaps the best engine layout ever - which just plain ain't suitable for FWD.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There speaks someone who has never driven a powerful car.

[Doctor Drivel]

It is not. The flat 4 is, as the centre of gravity is low, which promotes better handling.

[Grunff]

You know even less about cars than you do about boilers. Amazing...

[Doctor Drivel]

It is clear you know nothing about pipework and even less about engines. Don't you feel ashamed?

[Matt]

Dribble I'm not Lord Hall, and all I was making reference to is BMW's (and to a lesser extent Mercedes) strange attachment for rear wheel drive when for significant part of their range FWD or 4WD would actually make more sense.

My personal everyday cars are a mixture of front wheel drive, mid engined rear wheel drive and front engined rear wheel drive. When the weather gets bad I revert to four wheel drive. As for what I prefer, all of them.

[Doctor Drivel]

Lod Hall, I know that.

Lord Hall, mine is mainly electric front. Also when the weather is nice a rear wheel drive and front wheel drive.

[Roger]

The message from Matt contains these words:

I see that you are young enough to have been brainwashed into believing that front wheel drive is the bees knees when in reality it was introduced purely as a cost saving exercise and a great deal of development time and money has since been wasted curing the inherent problems. Just like Porsche and their outboard motor. The current state is unremarkable but where would they be now if the initial layout had been better?

[Doctor Drivel]

Roger, you are wrong as usual. Sad but true. FWD was introduced in the

1930s. It was perfecetd by the Mini with the constant velocity joint, further refined by FIAT around 1971. The Mini went around corners like it was on rails. Most copied the design in varying forms.

No problems Roger.

[Matt]

Nothing wrong with the engines - fantastic engineering. But the gripe is why does a car designed to move 4/5 people end up being so wasteful of space to accommodate the powertrain just to gain (at best) marginal handling advantages (witness the continual Bavarian drivel about 50/50 weight distribution)

The 1 series and 3 series compact are just crying out for an intelligent use of FWD. Instead they stick a heap of crap RWD system in with halfbaked rear suspension more suited to a horse drawn cart. The gadget overload is just an utter joke - you need a co pilot to operate anything other than the basic controls. On top of the dubious engineering and build quality you now have to put up with crap exteriors drawn by that wanker Bangle - who has to be the biggest retard on the planet this side of GW Bush. I've seen more elegant designs come from the hands of a 3 year old doodling with a wax crayon. BMW just really lost the plot 15 years ago. It makes me so angry!

[Matt]

Utter crap Dribble, the c of g might be lower but the engine will always be a complete nail compared to an inline 6.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That will be why it's so popular, then?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It is, however, a space saving package for small cars.

[Doctor Drivel]

** snip senility **

[Matt]

His front wheel drive DB6 is absolutely unique :-)