Structural Wall?

[The Medway Handyman]

Looked at a job on the way home tonight, lady wants a wall between two landing cupboards removed.

She reckoned it wasn't structural, but seeing as though she was a dental nurse & AFAIK they are not trained in this area, I told her to get it checked out by a structural engineer.

Strange though - effectively its a partition between two adjacent cupboards, but its a solid wall.

Looked in the loft & the joists run at right angles to the wall, but you can't see the top of the wall, only plasterboard, so the ceiling must have been plasterboarded before the wall was erected. Even stranger, there is no wall underneath it, just the kitchen.

Why would they build a solid wall, with no support under, just to divide two cupboards?

[AA]

They had some blocks but no timber to hand and it was Friday P.M.....?

Adam

[The Natural Philosopher]

cos all they had was blocks and mortar?

[Cash]

The Natural Philosopher, the reply is for TMH, as I have followed others leads and blocked his posts.

And that's a normal construction in many buildings - the joists are more than strong enough to carry it, particularly if they are trimmed or trimming joists (for the uninitiated, bigger than the standard joists so that floor openings [such as for the stairs) can be accommodated.

Cash

[Heliotrope Smith]

Nothing under, nothing over so it is not structural just get on and knock it out.

It is not unusual to block up from floor to ceiling, cheaper than timber, plasterboard/lath & plaster plus chippies time.

[Limey Lurker]

I'm not sure that your definition of trimmed and trimming joists is accurate; perhaps because I am initiated.

[Roger]

You always make me laugh. Each time you get a job you come on here and ask what to do - suggesting you are a right cowboy! Funny how you slag people off when it's you that doesn't have a clue really. She might only be employed as a Dental Nurse but you have no idea what she is qualified in. She is probably far more intelligent than you.

Why not, depends what looks good or what alterations have been made elsewhere.

[Hugo Nebula]

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:58:07 GMT, a certain chimpanzee, "The Medway Handyman" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Victorian or Edwardian house presumably? It's not uncommon to see stud walls with brickwork between. They're usually not load-bearing.

I don't know why they did it. For sound insulation, maybe?

Of course, just because a wall is not masonry, doesn't mean it's not load-bearing. And just because a wall is not load-bearing, doesn't mean it's not structural. Recently, an occupant of a ground-floor flat checked with our Building Control whether he could remove a stud wall in her flat. After checking that it didn't affect fire safety, the surveyor said it was OK. The next we hear is from the occupant of the upstairs flat wondering why her floors had dropped by several inches.

[Bill Wright]

There's lots of walls like that in my house. If the brickies have finished the shell why not get them to do a bit of blockwork?

Bill

[Ian White]

Yes, fine.

What is the essential difference between "load-bearing" and "structural" in this particular context? (Presumably this is a specialised usage, like "tax avoidance" vs "tax evasion".)

That example seems to be more about "Just because it's a stud wal..."

[neverwas]

I'm glad you commented as (being a SOG) I'd consulted the OED and found only:

"trimmed joist, a joist which is tenoned into a trimmer (sense 4); cf. trimming-joist "

whence

"trimming-joist, a joist into which the end of a trimmer (sense 4) is fitted"

and so finally to

"trimmer 4. Arch. A short beam framed across an opening (as a stair-well or hearth) to carry the ends of those joists which cannot be extended across the opening;"

That last fits with what I was told when I enlarged our loft hatch - ie to fit new "trimnmers".

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Absolutely. Wood in compression - as in a stud wall - can take enormous loads. Think pit props. ;-)

I've removed two internal walls in this house, both stud ones and both load bearing. Don't guess - get a structural engineer in. They are very good value.

[Stuart Noble]

He'd be some handyman if his knowledge covered every aspect of building.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Most would think asking advice on something they're not sure about commendable. Rather than the cowboy builder approach of not giving a stuff and bodging. Are you a cowboy since you think it's losing face to ask for advice?

[dennis]

As long as he sticks to being a handyman it will be OK. Its when they decide to make a few extra quid by doing something they don't have a clue about that they become cowboys. That and stuff their insurance doesn't cover.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Err, how do you know what his insurance covers?

Taking down an internal wall under the supervision of a pro can be a DIY task. I've done two here, and I'm not a builder. I've also seen it done by a 'proper' builder where they took risks. And then left all the rubble under the floors...

Only those who have a self inflated sense of their importance think it's wrong to seek advice.

[John Rumm]

No, if he went and did a job without checking any points he were unsure of first, that would make him a cowboy.

Why do you think wanting to lean more is the sign of a cowboy?

[Hugo Nebula]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:14:47 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, Ian White randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Glad you asked. In loft conversions it's not uncommon to have stud walls acting as gussets to provide lateral restraint. Walls can also buttress other walls. I've seen (admittedly very rarely) situations where a stud wall lined with plywood has been used as a buttress.

[The Medway Handyman]

Actually no, 1970's I'd guess.

Its between two cupboards on the landing. Possibly one had a hot water tank in some time ago?

Ferzacerly why I'm not touching it without a structural engineer saying its OK.

[The Medway Handyman]

Like knocking down walls without knowing what you are doing?