Single trap siphonic / syphonic toilet / wc experience

Had some fun the other day with an elderly relative's single trap siphonic / syphonic toilet / wc - a search here brings up no information so thought I'd post.

Couldn't figure out how it worked at first and the trap comes towards you before doubling back underneath itself - picture here:

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. Toilet was original from when the bungalow was built in around 1955.

From the (straight) spigot at the back the soil pipe immediately goes

90 degrees into the (solid) floor, vertically down about 4 ft then 90 degrees back to horizontal and another 4ft into the gulley.

The toilet was draining slowly - hopeless as the siphonic action wasn't being set up.

Drains seemed clear so decided as there seemed no way of getting anything into the base of the toilet from either end, so, with time pressing and it being the only toilet in the old lady's house, to call someone in. Rang Age Concern and they gave me the name of a few local plumbers. Second one answered and arrived, with colleague, an hour or so later. They couldn't get into the toilet either and jet washing from either end made no difference. Decided only thing to do was remove the pan, with huge risk of breaking it.

The guys hacked away around and then underneath the pan and eventually removed it. Cistern separated easily - wing nuts just undid straight off. Turned out the old lady had dropped a small glass into the pan. All that remained was the thick base and that had wedged into where the "pipe" narrows to encourage the siphonic action. Once released by pushing towards the front it dropped out.

The 2 guys spent 6 hrs until 10PM doing this (refitting was difficult as the cistern wouldn't seal and of course the donut washer was an odd size which they didn't have anything quite like it). I was astonished when they asked for =A3160 cash although we needed a proper receipt due to being responsible for the old lady's money so they took a cheque for =A3195. I'd been bracing myself for them to ask for =A3500.

Now I know what was stuck and where it was, I keep agonising over whether it ought to have been possible to release it without dismantling the bog, especially as it's not impossible that she could do a similar thing again. I did wonder if one of those spiral snakes would have made it there from the gully. From the pan end the plumbers were reluctant to be aggressive for fear of damaging the initial china lip and the way that glass was stuck that wouldn't have helped anyway. I also wonder if one of those pressure washer powered drain cleaners could have negotiated the two 90 degree bends from the gully and made its way into the base of the toilet - does anyone have any experience of using them?

One other question - the flush was pretty weak and the cistern siphon was raised off the base of the cistern, but otherwise seemed normal. I know the dual siphon pans are a bit "special" but I was wondering if the siphon in the this one could be replaced with a flapper valve which she wood find much easier to operate.

Reply to
Rory
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Couldn't figure out how it worked at first and the trap comes towards you before doubling back underneath itself - picture here:

formatting link
. Toilet was original from when the bungalow was built in around 1955.

From the (straight) spigot at the back the soil pipe immediately goes

90 degrees into the (solid) floor, vertically down about 4 ft then 90 degrees back to horizontal and another 4ft into the gulley.

The toilet was draining slowly - hopeless as the siphonic action wasn't being set up.

Drains seemed clear so decided as there seemed no way of getting anything into the base of the toilet from either end, so, with time pressing and it being the only toilet in the old lady's house, to call someone in. Rang Age Concern and they gave me the name of a few local plumbers. Second one answered and arrived, with colleague, an hour or so later. They couldn't get into the toilet either and jet washing from either end made no difference. Decided only thing to do was remove the pan, with huge risk of breaking it.

The guys hacked away around and then underneath the pan and eventually removed it. Cistern separated easily - wing nuts just undid straight off. Turned out the old lady had dropped a small glass into the pan. All that remained was the thick base and that had wedged into where the "pipe" narrows to encourage the siphonic action. Once released by pushing towards the front it dropped out.

The 2 guys spent 6 hrs until 10PM doing this (refitting was difficult as the cistern wouldn't seal and of course the donut washer was an odd size which they didn't have anything quite like it). I was astonished when they asked for £160 cash although we needed a proper receipt due to being responsible for the old lady's money so they took a cheque for £195. I'd been bracing myself for them to ask for £500.

Now I know what was stuck and where it was, I keep agonising over whether it ought to have been possible to release it without dismantling the bog, especially as it's not impossible that she could do a similar thing again. I did wonder if one of those spiral snakes would have made it there from the gully. From the pan end the plumbers were reluctant to be aggressive for fear of damaging the initial china lip and the way that glass was stuck that wouldn't have helped anyway. I also wonder if one of those pressure washer powered drain cleaners could have negotiated the two 90 degree bends from the gully and made its way into the base of the toilet - does anyone have any experience of using them?

One other question - the flush was pretty weak and the cistern siphon was raised off the base of the cistern, but otherwise seemed normal. I know the dual siphon pans are a bit "special" but I was wondering if the siphon in the this one could be replaced with a flapper valve which she wood find much easier to operate.

Video camera inspection thingy?

Reply to
Graham.

I guess that would be as hard to wiggle into the base of the toilet as anything else?

Reply to
Rory

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