Screw into mains cable!

[ARWadsworth]

If they told you to get an electrician out then I doubt very much that they will try to wriggle.

They are used to it.

[Steve Walker]

They are certainly more at risk and also increase the risk to adults as they are more likely to make silly decisions in a fire, such as hiding under a bed or in a wardrobe because they are scared - firefighters are trained to look in such places for this very reason. Many children have died trapped in fires while adults have managed to make it out and adults have also died going back in to get them.

You could isolate the supply, but whether that is sensible with young kids that may be scared of the dark, the risks of using candles as emergency lighting, lack of heating and hot water if the weather is cold and even the problem of kids using a toilet in the dark is questionable, when an organisation such as BT should be able to get hold of an emergeny electrician for you 24/7.

Of course what BT really meant was that their inflexible procedures won't allow someone to make the sensible decision to simply call a local emergency electrician and have them send the invoice directly.

SteveW

[Dave]

Very good advice from Dave there. As an ex-BT engineer with 25 years service, all I can say is that they will sort it. I've had a disaster or two in my time (including losing balance of my ladders whilst carrying them extended and they smashed through a window, and also damaging a hand-painted pub sign (driving a higher-than-normal van that day) that cost £1,500 to have replaced) and our boss said that he didn't care what we'd done as long as we told him immediately and were honest about it.

[Dave]

He said that it's a cable feeding the "power sockets" so isolating that would not cause anyone to be in the dark as lights are run on different circuits.

[Steve Walker]

I was answering the inflammable children post, not the original post and therefore speaking of damage in a general sense, not the specific case. I should have made that clearer.

Some householders would not know what to do and would either leave everything on or everything off.

As an aside a damaged cable with a continuous neutral to earth fault would still trip an RCD even if the circuit's MCB was switched off and with a 17th edition installation, this would take out all the upstairs (or downstairs) lights along with the sockets of the downstairs (or upstairs) floor.

SteveW

[ARWadsworth]

There are plenty of people that do not know what to do. The OP did the right thing IMHO. I would have liked to said not to get an electrician in until Monday, but I decided not to as the OP had not given enough info. Personally I did not see it as a fire risk, however as I had not seen the damage I kept my mouth shut. The damage was not he OPs fault and BT should pay for the weekend callout for an electrician.

Only on the cheap installations. A 17th edition CU can mean anything from a dual RCD setup to all RCBOs.

[Steve Walker]

Agreed. The whole problem is that BT's employee has made a mistake that he really shouldn't have and BT should have some way of dealing with it promptly, without the housholder having to do anything other than call them once. I'm sure that BT will refund the cost of the electrician, but the OP shouldn't have had to pay it in the first place - some people may not be able to easily do so at short notice.

With hindsight, further information from the OP indicates that the earth had been cut. Many householders would have assumed that everything was okay as everything was working and would have been left with one or more unearthed sockets.

Indeed, but until the price of RCBOs comes down, I would expect a large number of householders and landlords to opt for the cheaper setup - I don't know, that's not my field of work, you would have a much better idea of ratios here. I've seen basic 17th edition consumer units, fully populated, for as little as £50. Unless you know somewhere particularly good, that wouldn't even buy two RCBOs for most consumer units.

SteveW

[dennis]

£20 each in toolstation,

[ARWadsworth]

The BT engineer said nothing and made it the OPs problem. BT really should be able to deal with this, but in reallity BT can only just about manage to make a telephone work!

Not a good situation to be in, I agree. The OP came here for advice about his electrics and he got some good advice and followed it up by getting an electrician in. All that is left is to debate his compensation. Redecorating the damaged plaster could result in a whole room being repainted.

Not now that VAT is 20% :-)

[ARWadsworth]

Jesus wept. I have just looked at their prices for Wylex RCBOs. £32.67 plus VAT.

The last one I bought was £22.50 plus VAT at the wholesalers

[ARWadsworth]

Got that one wrong, it was £22.50 plus vat for a Hager RCBO, the Wylex RCBO was only £17.50 plus vat.

[dennis]

Their web prices include VAT.

The CED ones are 19.88 inc VAT. I prefer MK myself.

[ARWadsworth]

CED is not a common brand of CU. It is heavily discounted to get good sales with some wholesalers. BG are doing the same.

And MK are no longer the leaders IMHO. Hager are better. But only based on my opinion of fitting lots of CUs. Wylex CU are now as good as MK but have a more limited range of accessories to fit the CU.

If I was asked what CU I would prefer in my house then it would have to be Hager.

[tony sayer]

Once told to me by a mate who was in the service..

1. Get out.

1. Get the fire brigade out.

2. Stay out...

Up Piss Brewery arrange in couldn't a ....

[Steve Walker]

That's long been the advice and it's good advice. I would not go back for pets or belongings, but if my wife or one of my children were to be trapped in a burning house, I don't think that I would be staying out and waiting for the fire brigade!

SteveW

[Dave Liquorice]

I agree, many people would assume that as the "trained engineer" didn't say anything and everything works it's OK. All cable damage needs to be inspected. Cable damage that causes an RCD to trip really does need inspection before power is restored and I wouldn't be happy leaving it with power applied.

The cable was power to a socket, presumably on a ring, with only a single break in the earth. All sockets would still be earthed due to the ring nature of the circuit. But would the earth loop impedance now be high enough to stop some protection (plug top fuse?) operating within the prescribed limits?

I can't decide if the sack is too good for this BT engineer. If he doesn't know the basics of electrical installation practice (safe zones etc) he shouldn't have been let loose in peoples homes with a drill or screwdriver.

[Bob Eager]

How about reporting it to the HSE too?

[Steve Walker]

Could also have been a radial or spur.

SteveW

[Dave Liquorice]

He he, though as nothing happened as a consequence they might not be all that interested. But a nod in thier direction might be worth while if BT are sending out engineers without suffcient understanding/training.

[Bob Eager]

I think they might well be interested. And it'd put the fear of God into BT.