I had a flush mounted (not surface) consumer unit in my last house. Cables were all chased into the plaster, including the tails.
Christian.
Interesting that I've never seen the electricity board do this :-)
My understanding was that with modern enclosures (metal or flame-retardant plastic) the fireproof backing was no longer necessary: it was really there for all the older-type fuse boards which were open at the back.
Woteva :-)
Hwyl!
M.
"> > Regulations 421, 422, 527-01 apply. I guess you can interpret them as you
Nice one. Maybe it was my gaffer. He did wear a belt _and_ braces. ;-)
Smudger
This wasn't in Sheffield by anychance was it...? I used to live in a Sheffield council house and under the floorboards at the top of the main flight of stairs were 2 junction boxes. One had all red wires in, the other all black wires. The earth wires as you described were all not sleeved and were just twisted together in the middle of the 2 boxes. This was done before I moved into the property. I can tell you though that it wasn't like that when I left.
-- troubleinstore
I keep finding exactly that in our 1960s built flat. It has PVC wiring (not T&E, singles in conduit) but every light fitting I've replaced so far I've found everything satisfactory except that the earth wires were twisted together and stuffed up into the ceiling space.
Which was deleted when the 2001 edition of BS 7671 came out. See section
132-01-01 & -02 now.Certainly isn't: 314-01-04.
Yes, and common back into the 1950's too when PVC wiring started appearing in buildings. Only seen this done on lighting circuits though (where the earth wasn't actually required at the time).
But the early 'lighting' PVC cable was just twin - no earth. Although TW&E did become common before earths on lighting circuits were mandatory. This didn't stop many simply clipping off the earth wire - after all 'it' still works without it...
I've come across this on 13 amp circuits too. Old habits die hard for some
- perhaps used to 2 pin power circuits.
My parent's which is 1956 IIRC, does have earthed lighting circuit, so it certainly was available then, although not mandatory.
Ah, I'm glad you noticed ;-)
Smudger
I don't remember PVC in '56 - it was still rubber that the wholesalers in Aberdeen supplied then and for some time afterwards. Perhaps old stock. ;-)
I'll check the date with them -- I might be a little out, but it was before 1960.
I found an Architects' Journal for August 1958 when going through stuff at the weekend. An advert from Rist's Wires and Cables of Newcastle-under-Lyme assures readers that "you can be assured of complete satisfaction from Rist's T.R.S. and V.I.R. house wiring cables". No mention of PVC and I was surprised that VIR was mentioned: I had assumed that TRS had replaced it.
My parents extension built in 1960-61 did use PVC.
I'm glad we got on to this 'cos I've always wandered about it. My parents' house was built in 1960. The power is in T&E (but stranded not solid including the earth wire) and the lights were wired in VIR singles with the live hopping between the switches and the neutral hopping between the ceiling roses. The lighting definitely wasn't earthed, although the steel conduit used in the garage had a piece of bare stranded earth wire wrapped around it in the ceiling void (this wire went back to the 2-way earth block).
Are we saying then that the switch over from rubber to pvc happened around that time and the sparks just installed whatever was available?
Smudger
7/029". But TW&E in this size was in rubber before PVC, and then for a few years before metrication. Which I can't remember when exactly, but about '70.
Certainly using singles for lighting existed at the same time as TW&E for power. I don't think the modern loop in loop out ceiling rose was around then - I think that also came about 10 years later.
I remember 7/029 only too well, not easy to work with and only too easy to get the odd strand sticking out. I only ever really used
7/029 PVC T&E so I think it places it around the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Good point. I should have said PVC Twin&Earth. ISTR that the copper strands were tinned as well (like the VIR).
Smudger
1969 or 70, certainly. It seemed very strange at the time to be thinking about cables in square millimetres.
There wasn't a sudden switchover. PVC was around for a long time, certainly from the 50s, possibly even the 40s, but only came into widespread use during the 60s.
No, 3-plate roses, as they were called then, had been around for a long time - certainly since the 40s (in true post-deco bakelite style). What did seem to take a long time was for the manufacturers to add the earth terminal, which brings us back to the twisted-together earths...
Seems quite likely. My parents moved into a new house about 1958/9 and all the wiring was TRS, 7/029 for the ring, 3/029 for the lights and
7/036 (I think) for the cooker. The "ring" main was very minimal - 2 singles on a ground floor ring and 3 singles on 2 spurs. We didn't take very long to extend the ring and that was all done with PVC.That particular small housing estate was the last one the electrical contractor did before retiring and giving up his business and the general impression was that he just used up all his old stock on the job, even using old round surface mount light switches on wooden patresses.
That original installation taught me an awful lot about how not to wire a house.
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