Ah sorry ... I forgot that every time any code is changed it works first time and you can reconnect GPIO pins and make other such changes with it all live?
And *every time* you turn the thing on you have to wait for it to boot .... that *will* be longer than it takes for any Arduino board to boot.
Cheers, T i m
And me! ;-)
I think I tried one and whilst it was clever and worked (you could test the code on the PC screen), the code it produced was a bit clumsy?
Maybe I should have refined that to 'as an ex electronics repair tech, current electronics dabbler ...' as then the whole Arduino solution fits (me) even better!
A mate who *is* a (good) programmer (especially in C++ or whatever the Arduinos use in the IDE) is also interested in the whole Arduino thing but isn't so good on the electronics side. So, when I'm having an issue with the code (and that sort of thing pushes me the closest I ever get to actually smashing functional equipment) I get him to take remote control of my PC and he seems to be able to go straight to the offending stuff with hardly a glance. Likewise he doesn't really have much of a clue of how one might use the basic / passive electronic components (even if he knows what the do) so we compliment each other nicely.
I don't and never have *liked* programming so for me it's more of a chore than a pleasure (which the whole point of playing with such things should be). Given the choice, I'd rather just give the remit to my mate and pay him to do the coding. And that of course is partly why I get very stuck on Linux with the CLI and having to find and edit files by hand (the last time I had to do that was editing config.sys and autoexec.bat in my DOS days!). ;-)
In fact, If I knew anyone ITRW I'd do the same with all the Linux issues I've suffered (get someone else to do it) but I don't ... and from the geeks I've had the misfortune to encounter electronically, I think that's a blessing in disguise! ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Back into.
The chips were originally intended for 'phones.
Andy
Yep.
Well no, at least not my code but with interpreteted languages like Python, Perl, PHP you get an error message telling you the line number it fell over on and what the problem was.
Yep, Python will issue a warning if it thinks that something else may have "ownership" of a GPIO but will use it anyway.
My "play" Pi has been up nearly 3 days and I'm surpised it's that short. I can't remember why it got rebooted. Perhaps it suffered a power glitch as I fiddled with things on the breadboard.
This Pi reboots in 23 seconds from not responding to pings to starting again after a "sudo reboot". The OS is Raspian Jessie "Lite", ie no GUI. No doubt far slower than Arduino but fast enough and remember that you don't need to reboot very often.
That wasn't my point at that point but you reflect my point in a mo. ;-)
There you go. ;-)
My point re 'having to' restart was down to the more practical point of playing with electrical stuff (like pulling a wire off the GPIO pin and moving it elsewhere) with the thing running (electrically). You can do it (we do) and often get away with it but stuff can also get damaged and personally I'd risk it on an Arduino when the chip could be replaced for a couple of quid versus a Pi when you would have to replace the whole thing for nearer £30.
I think you get the option when first booting Raspian, to boot to the GUI or not and I generally opt for GUI as I'm lost in the CLI. If it's still just a matter of entering 'startx' (or whatever it was) to get to the GUI so that I could actually do stuff then I might go for that for my OctoPrint server.
Well, that's nearly instant, and uploading new code is often only a few seconds so 'yes', it is much better if you are constantly de-powering the unit for some reason (rather than just stopping the code running or whatever). The other thing is with no live OS as such you have less to go wrong ... (typically) no uSD card to corrupt / fail, no OS bugs or weaknesses. It 'becomes' a stand alone electrical solution, rather than being a 'computer' as such (even though I appreciate there is still code running and that code have bugs etc).
Again, 'subject to what you might be doing' ... like moving wires about (which is probably more common on my type of project than yours).
Cheers, T i m
We're becoming spoiled for choice now. Pi and Arduino are, of course, exce llent. The BBC Micro Bit should be great too.
But I've just discovered ESP8266 boards, which are tiny, rather powerful, h ave built-in Wifi, and cost from less than £2! You can use the Arduino I DE with them if you like. Or, more excitingly for me, there will shortly b e a release of MicroPython for ESP8266.
I think we'll be hearing much more about ESP8266 over the course of this ye ar...
I've been hearing about them for quite a while (at least a year). You can program them in Mua.
I'm looking at puuting one is the cat's play ball so I can ping it and make it beep when it's lost.
cellent. The BBC Micro Bit should be great too.
pi 3 and the BBC Micro Bit seem to be in short supply.
have built-in Wifi, and cost from less than £2!
really where can I get them the ones I've seen are £6+
or me, there will shortly be a release of MicroPython for ESP8266.
I quite like the bluebean but a bit more expensive. http://vurt.blue/products/lightblue-bean
l, have built-in Wifi, and cost from less than £2!
For something a bit more practical (but more pricey - nearly £4!) for exp erimentation:
ful, have built-in Wifi, and cost from less than £2!
xperimentation:
from china, but we do order from china. The college won't let us order from ebay :-( Unless you take personal responsibility, and I'm not doing that.
we'd be able to use amazon for £5 +£4 P&P
I saw that mentioned on TV a while back but hadn't seen mention of them since. As you say 'should be' I'm guessing they still aren't available to all (or any?) yet?
They sound interesting but a quick Google suggests they are another module that uses 3.3V and I must be old fashioned to still feel more comfortable with 5V. ;-)
Whilst I love making stuff do stuff, it's the programming side that I generally have most issue with. This is frustrating to me because I can see (have seen) how easy that can make electronics projects, compared with doing them using discrete components or even some logic (as I did when I designed and built my multi-function 8 ch light sequencer 40 years ago).
Can you give me a typical example of how one might use an ESP8266 over say an Arduino Nano etc please?
Cheers, T i m
The chips were originally designed to replace the 6502 processor in Acorns PCs back in about 1985, when mobile phones were large and bulky.
The phone business came about as super-integration became the norm and the now much-shrunken Arm core was surrounded by glue-logic.
xcellent. The BBC Micro Bit should be great too.
I know only what I read. I think some teachers have recently received thei rs. I do, however, have a child in Year 7 who I hope will be teaching me a ll about the BBC Micro:bit in due course :)
, have built-in Wifi, and cost from less than £2! You can use the Arduin o IDE with them if you like.
OK. 3.3V is quite similar to 5V. Just a bit smaller :)
on for ESP8266.
I can understand that. I've dabbled with a few programming languages over the years. Nowadays I stick to Python whenever I can, because it's (possib ly) the easiest language to learn, and (possibly) the most efficient in ter ms of humans getting something working in the least time/effort for themsel ves.
Well I hesitate to advise, because my first ESP8266 board is still on the b oat from China... but the key points for me are that:
So, it's cheaper than an Arduino Nano (or, perhaps, the same price as a clo ne?) but the Nano lacks Wifi and the Nano is a whole lot less powerful so c an't run MicroPython.
That's what I though I understood ... that they would be rolled out into the educational field ... either only or first?
I'm sure they will as well, They seem to absorb all that sort of stuff like a sponge. ;-)
Yeah and I'm happy interfacing the 5V o/p to the 3.3V input (voltage divider) but the other way round isn't quite so easy (especially without inverting the logic). I do have a little bi-directional driver module that is supposed to match a 3.3V tx / rx with a 5V one (used on a bluetooth module on the Arduino) but it didn't seem to work.
I'm glad, some can't. ;-)
Maybe I'll give that a look then David. Have you ever tried C++ (or whatever it is the Arduinos use) and if you have, would you say it's easier or not?
That said I had enough difficulty installing Python on my W10 PC the other night to be able to run the OctoPrint server but the walk through I followed did hint that you really ought to know what you were doing on such things (and of course I don't). That said, I *did* get it working on both W10 on a little HP PC and the RPi on Ubuntu so ... ;-)
Fair enough, happy for your thinking out loud even. ;-)
Check. Probably a bit cheaper than most Arduinos, especially if you add WiFi etc.
Oh, ok. So, say you wanted to control the LED lighting in 6 fish tanks (using PWM to ramp the lighting up and down, as it would in nature etc) and from a central controller, some locally and some tanks 'remote' (but in the same room), do you think that should be a good fit? [1]
Ok (I'll take that as all being good stuff). ;-)
Yes, it sounds like the pricing would be a bit keener than a WiFi equipped nano but does it matter if an Arduino isn't powerful enough to run Python if it can do what it does as fast in the end (I'm asking 'if' there etc)?
Cheers, T i m
[1] A mate (with the tanks) and I have done several experiments driving a 12V load (like his tank lights) up and down using a power transistor and the PWM of the Arduino Uno and also driving a Nano over bluetooth doing the same remotely and it all worked. ;-) The bit we stumbled on was creating the code to drive the master unit and it's display (we have the display working ok on a test sketch) and the setup buttons to make it useable ITRW (like being able to override each channel on/ off or on auto-timer etc).
I have used one of the adafruit bidirectional drivers between a 3.3V TUMPA and a 5V string of RGB pixels, worked OK, but was used as output only in that case.
Yes, thanks for mentioning it, I've got a couple of ESP-12F modules and a breakout board on order now.
The ESP and Pi3 are approaching a similar point from different directions, one is a WiFi interface with some spare I/O and CPU horsepower which you're allowed to use, the other is a full-blown Linux board with WiFi bolted-on.
I think I found the converter I used worked the 'easy way' but not the other (so I just went back to a voltage devider). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Or maybe it wasn't as mine arrived this morning. ;-)
Not sure it's working though, well not on any of the images I've tried so far that do work on my Pi2?
I just get that rainbow coloured square display that doesn't seem to move (although there is an LED flashing on the board).
Cheers, T i m
Doesn't that rainbow thing mean you're not giving it enough power? The Pi 3 does need more power than the 2 I think.
It might, but it did eventually come up when I flashed a new Noobs image. However, whilst it starts, Linux complains abut re-sizing the partition and won't go any further (8G uSD card formatted with a couple of different formatters).
Agreed, I think it does because not only does it now have the 4 USB ports but the built-in WiFi and BT etc. That said, whilst I've seen mention of 5.1V, I was powering in from a surge adaptor that has 2x USB ports with a total output of 2A or so (and only the Pi plugged into it).
Thinking on, I guess there is an advantage to not having *everything* built in and that's that you might be able to save power by not powering stuff you don't need (assuming such devices don't disappear completely from the power list when soft disabled or not in use etc).
I've just got back and will try the various options later.
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I've just bought a nearly unused RPi Mk1B (kit) from a family friend (for more than it was worth) because all the bits will come in handy and you can't have enough computers (or motorcycles). ;-)
You'll need to upgrade the firmware files on your SD card at the very least, possibly your kernel.
Theo
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.